Where is FrG?
January 16th, 2016 at 9:12:54 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | The stories are true. The only thing in doubt is the exact numbers of people. Nobody is doubting there were people from Cannan in Egypt who left mistreatment and difficult circumstances. These people were led by God and appointed leaders and received miraculous signs on the way. I don't know why you are so desperate to prove this wrong or false. The stories are true and so are the religious interpretations of them. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 16th, 2016 at 9:30:05 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
That's like saying the Santa myth is true, it's just that some of the details got blown out of proportion. The Bible is like that bit they used to do on Candid Camera. They would tell a story to one person, and that person would tell it to another. It wasn't very far down the line until the details of the story were completely lost, and even the purpose of the story was changed. That's how the Bible came to us, a cobbled together mess of stories passed from one generation to the next. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 16th, 2016 at 11:58:47 PM permalink | |
TheCesspit Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 1929 |
That's such bafflegab and twisting of what I know to be the definition of truth, I'm disappointed, father. Truth is a precious, golden thing, and you can't have something being not true and true at the same time. It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life |
January 17th, 2016 at 6:25:42 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Far be it of me to argue against such a profound and detailed analysis. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
January 17th, 2016 at 6:57:30 AM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | no, that isn't the only thing yes, people are doubting that, and if they were the people who became the jews. Did you read the wikipedia page on the exodus? the historicity section and below enumerates these doubts, the lack of archeological evidence, and some possible explanations do you have any evidence for this outside of the mythical stories in the bible? no desperation, just the desire to separate fact from fiction stories that lack evidence are just stories and may or may not be true, and what good are interpretations of events if the events never actually occurred? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
January 17th, 2016 at 7:29:41 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Many "explanations" have been suggested to justify the lack of evidence. They are all very plausible: 99% of all papyri of the period have been lost, Egyptians seldom recorded setbacks or defeats, people fleeing a land in a hurry would not have brought a lot of property with them, etc. The problem is that we're supposed to believe large numbers of one particular group of people were held captive for generations, without leaving a single trace. Not one. We're also supposed to believe these people also wondered in the Sinai desert for 40 years without leaving a trace. Not one. Where we do find plenty of evidence of the Hebrews is in Israel, which was called Canaan in ancient times. But to suggest this proves the Exodus, is tantamount to saying the presence of Mormons in Utah today proves the Book of Mormon. Turning to internal consistency, though, there are two noteworthy aspects. 1) "Moses" is an Egyptian name. True. No need to dig much. It features prominently as part of the names of many pharaohs, like Ramses. 2) Some parts of the story describe both Egypt and the Sinai with a fair degree of accuracy. Well, this tells us some Hebrews, perhaps a small band, may have lived in Egypt long ago, came to a bad end there, perhaps even were enslaved, and then fled and reached Canaan. maybe. Maybe it's a story about Egyptians who converted to Judaism, found a bad reaction to this and ultimately fled to Canaan. Or maybe it means some Hebrews visited Egypt, which they reached by way of the Sinai, and when they returned to Canaan told very tall tales. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
January 17th, 2016 at 12:14:34 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
From my experience, when a Christian says 'why are you so desperate to prove this wrong', it's code for them running out of arguments and why don't I just stop picking on them. For an atheist it's our the constant job to remind them they have no basis in fact for their religion, it has to be taken 100% on faith. That's the game their god plays, believe in him and you will be rewarded. Not 'here's a boatload of proof that I exist, believe in me and you'll be rewarded'. Faith without proof is a very hard state of mind to arrive at and maintain. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 17th, 2016 at 5:46:18 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | What I actually meant is that I am surprised so many atheists really want to read the Bible literally like a fundamentalist. I get that it might give them some low hanging fruit but it really seems disingenuous. Instead of actually dealing with what the vast majority of Jews and Christians believe and have believed for thousands of years lets nit pick about how many Jews escaped from Egypt. While we are at it lets talk about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. I don't mean to demean the necessary and important discussion of the historicity of the Exodus. While some people argue that the absence of evidence is positive proof that the entire story is false (an argument that if made by a theist would be roundly mocked). My concern is if we are not losing the forest to look at the trees. Here is a good video if you have a little more than an hour to spare about this issue. It is very fair and the most detailed archaeological discussion I think you can find on the internet. I guarantee if you hang in there you will learn something. Archaeology of Egypt as it relates to the Exodus If we want to talk about the religious significance of the events then that is a good thread and could be a study of the Book of Exodus. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 17th, 2016 at 6:02:00 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
It's the argument I use for not believing in god, what's wrong with it. If there's an absence of evidence in a trial, they let you go free. Absence of evidence isn't positive proof, but it's a darn good start in that direction.
What's the point of discussing the religious significance of a book of made up stories from 3000 years ago. Why not discuss the significance of Lord of the Rings, there's no difference. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 17th, 2016 at 6:46:01 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
We don't.
I did. In school. Twice. That was when I started doubting "god" and eventually saw the light. The surest way to turn people towards atheism is to get them to study the Bible. If I were you, I'd suppress it :) Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |