Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

How finite are our transgressions when they set an attitude and philosophy of life? We have eternal souls and when we spend our lives on Earth willfully doing evil, hurting others, and other sins we are not just committing finite acts we are forming an eternal soul.

Sin? pshaw.

Ghandi and Saddam Hussein are both likely in Hell. One was pretty evil and the other one didn't follow the right prescription but did a pretty damn good job compared to most humans.

Quote: Nareed

Let us also remember that:

Ignorance is Strength
Oppression is Love
.

These two are definitely true in the Church.
Ignorance was what ran the Church for most
of it's history. Why try and figure something
out when it's easier (and lots more fun) to
blame a witch or the devil or heretics for
everything. Oppression as 'love' is rampant
in the Church. Maureen Dowd was wondering
how Middle Eastern women put up with being
2nd class citizens.

"I was puzzling over that when it hit me: As a Catholic woman, I was doing the same thing.
I, too, belonged to an inbred and wealthy men’s club cloistered behind walls and disdaining modernity.
I, too, remained part of an autocratic society that repressed women and ignored their progress in the secular world.
I, too, rationalized as men in dresses allowed our religious kingdom to decay and to cling to outdated misogynistic rituals, blind to the benefits of welcoming women’s brains, talents and hearts into their ancient fraternity."

Quote: FrGamble

How finite are our transgressions when they set an attitude and philosophy of life?

See, this is the kind of thing that gives Christianity such a bad reputation.

Let's take a hypothetical case where a man marries a woman he loves deeply. He stays married, through good times and bad, until he dies. They have children and then grandchildren, and care for and love them all.

But once during his marriage he spent some time with a work colleague for whom he develops a strong desire.

He did nothing about it. He did not pursue this person. he did not divorce his wife. he did not think about divorcing his wife. Nothing in his life changed.

According to Christianity, he's an adulterer and a sinner. According to what you just said, this momentary feeling of desire set his attitude and philosophy of life.

No doubt you'll now try to explain or mention confession, repentance, forgiveness, etc. I say he did nothing he should feel sorry about.

Quote: Nareed

And all people are equal, but straight, Catholic people are more equal than others.

My apologies. This is indeed not true. here's the right version:

"All people are equal, but Catholic, cisgender, straight people are more equal than others."

There.

Quote: Evenbob

The Christian part of the Bible promises that,
not the Jewish part. The OT never really talks
about punishment or reward after death, it's
about what happens in the here and now that
matters.

I think I already shared with you the quote from the Prophet Daniel and you can see the same sentiments in most of all the prophets and present in the psalms as well. If you read Dalex's linked article I think you can see that this concept naturally developed over time based on the Hebrew Scriptures in Judaism.

Quote:

It's those wascally writers of the NT, whoever
they were,

They were faithful Jews who believed that Jesus Christ was the Messiah.

rxwine, the fact that you would say Ghandi is in hell is a clear indication you have little to no understanding of the concept.

Quote: Evenbob

These two are definitely true in the Church.
Ignorance was what ran the Church for most
of it's history.

I laugh at your statements and then I realize you really think this. The smartest people in the world, theologians, philosophers, and scientists were part of the Church for most of its history. They strived to explain things and worked hard to temper the blame an often uneducated and superstitious people wanted to blame on witches and other things. Imagine for a second if there was not a Church to try to bring some sanity into that period of craziness. Think how many witches would have been burned or worse at the hands of Roman Pagans or Germanic Barbarian tribes.

Quote:

"I was puzzling over that when it hit me: As a Catholic woman, I was doing the same thing.
I, too, belonged to an inbred and wealthy men’s club cloistered behind walls and disdaining modernity.
I, too, remained part of an autocratic society that repressed women and ignored their progress in the secular world.
I, too, rationalized as men in dresses allowed our religious kingdom to decay and to cling to outdated misogynistic rituals, blind to the benefits of welcoming women’s brains, talents and hearts into their ancient fraternity."

This is a powerful and well written quote. With all due respect to Maureen Dowd she hasn't really looked into the history and practices of the Church in regards to the rights and dignity of women. Those cloisters she disparagingly referred to were the first schools for women and gave opportunities for women to lead and govern in ways the secular world would take centuries to allow. There is no repression of women but rather the exultation of the feminine genius. The greatest human being ever to live, Mary is held as an example for all Christians. The rituals are not at all misogynistic and are far from blind in welcoming women. Take a quick glance at the modern Church and see the essential and huge impact and work of women. We are the only ones fighting against the sex-selective abortion and the abuse and objectification of women in pornography.

Quote: FrGamble

rxwine, the fact that you would say Ghandi is in hell is a clear indication you have little to no understanding of the concept.

Well, that's your fault. (by you, I mean religious people who try to explain how the Bible works)

I'll just quote someone else

Quote:

But with that said, I’m not afraid of discussing the likely implications of Gandhi’s life as it stacks up against Scripture. I’m not afraid to tell you what the Creator of Universe has said within its pages and about what he says he intends to do with humanity. I’m not afraid to quote verses on hell and to tell you that the Church has taught plainly about hell for nearly 2,000 years.

So as to the question, Is Gandhi in hell? let me just say: By all outward observations, Gandhi lived and died a devout Hindu. He made no profession of faith towards Jesus Christ. He never, as far as I can tell, renounced his Hinduism for Jesus and followed Jesus. In fact, by all public accounts, he rejected Jesus as the sole means and path to eternal life, even though he often praised much of what Jesus said and did.

So yes, if Gandhi’s rejection of Jesus was final and complete at his death, and if he did not believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, then Gandhi’s final eternal destination will be hell. This is also true should the billions of souls who now walk this earth refuse to put their hope and trust in Jesus Christ and die in their sins. And given that Jesus himself said that “narrow is the road that leads to eternal life” and “only a few find it,” it doesn’t seem unreasonable to conclude that of 7 billion souls alive today, that several billion of them could find that their eternal destiny lies in hell.

Quote: Nareed

See, this is the kind of thing that gives Christianity such a bad reputation.

Let's take a hypothetical case where a man marries a woman he loves deeply. He stays married, through good times and bad, until he dies. They have children and then grandchildren, and care for and love them all.

But once during his marriage he spent some time with a work colleague for whom he develops a strong desire.

He did nothing about it. He did not pursue this person. he did not divorce his wife. he did not think about divorcing his wife. Nothing in his life changed.

According to Christianity, he's an adulterer and a sinner. According to what you just said, this momentary feeling of desire set his attitude and philosophy of life.

No doubt you'll now try to explain or mention confession, repentance, forgiveness, etc. I say he did nothing he should feel sorry about.

Thank you for this example because it shows again how different your views about what the Church teaches are from reality.

This man you mention shows virtue in resisting normally healthy and strong desires we all feel for those we are attracted to. He probably also demonstrates that you can have true and deep friendships with someone without having sex with them. He uses his intellect and will to control his emotions because of his love for God, his wife, family, and sacredness of his vows.

You must remember that sin has to constantly fight against our natural desire to do good and be good. A momentary feeling or desire will not set his attitude or philosophy of life. The only way you can set yourself on a path towards hell is repeated conscious and free acts that you deliberately desire to hurt others or make yourself god.

Quote: FrGamble

There is no repression of women but rather the exultation of the feminine genius.

The only way I can believe this, given what you've said here before, is if Oppression counts as Love.

Quote:

The greatest human being ever to live, Mary is held as an example for all Christians.

Your ideal of a woman seems to be an oven to cook a messiah.

Quote:

We are the only ones fighting against the sex-selective abortion

No, you're not.