Simple question?

Quote: AZDuffman

It had to generate from somewhere.

We don't know that. It's very possible
that some form of the universe has
always been here, we can't prove it
yet because we have certain senses
that can only grasp a certain part of
it. Like my dog can't see color, for
him color doesn't exist. There is so
much we don't know that it's a gigantic
leap to blame it all on a god we can't
see or hear or feel, and then assign him
all kinds of traits that he might have.
It's the ultimate in superstitious magical
thinking. It appears and feels like the
universe has been here forever. If there
is a god that created it and me, he's knows
where I am and can let me know he exists.
So far I've heard nothing.

Like Nareed says, if it's that cruel insane god
in the Bible, I want nothing to do with him
anyway.

Quote: Evenbob

If there
is a god that created it and me, he's knows
where I am and can let me know he exists.
So far I've heard nothing.

Perhaps you have heard but did not recognize it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Perhaps you have heard but did not recognize it.

That would a pretty weak god, wouldn't it.
If Zeus or Odin wanted you to hear from
them, they would make damn sure they
were heard. A god that can't even make you
understand it's him is pretty pitiful.

"Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence... God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence."

God would know exactly, to the nth degree
how to convince me. I'm still waiting.

Quote: Evenbob

God would know exactly, to the nth degree
how to convince me. I'm still waiting.

That's part of its charm. This God wouldn't insult you by screaming at you like a simple child. It's merely up to you to not be a simpleton and hear what is all around you.

It's quite fascinating, if you can step outside and ignore its implications for a moment. Just the right amount of double speak, a touch of anti-knowledge, and you having something that's stood scrutiny for a very, very long time. It's the dictionary definition of amazing.

Even more so that a guy like FrG is >this close< to being exactly like us. He's heard of Zeus and Vishnu and FSM and Xenu, and I can only imagine his reaction mirrors ours. Of the 3,000+ gods that have ever "existed", we all are in lock step agreement.

It's just that last one...

Quote: Face

That's part of its charm.

I'm well aware of that approach. God
is subtle, they tell us, maybe he appeared
to you in a piece of toast, or made Mary
appear as a grease stain on the side of
a building. Didn't they sell that piece
of toast on Ebay?

I need a little more evidence than a weeping
statue in some village in Podunkville,
Movaria.

Quote: Face

Even more so that a guy like FrG is >this close< to being exactly like us. He's heard of Zeus and Vishnu and FSM and Xenu, and I can only imagine his reaction mirrors ours. Of the 3,000+ gods that have ever "existed", we all are in lock step agreement.

It's just that last one...

That's a common atheist meme on FB: We're all atheists. I just happened to believe in one fewer god than you.

What's fascinating, in a horrifying sort of way, is the rationalizations Christians can come up with to explain away all the other deities which are as made up as their Jehovah/Jesus. The common one, which a certain Catholic priest has used here, is that the one "true" "God" gradually revealed himself to humanity. Logical objections aside (like why he sent himself/Jesus to a tiny portion of the world), the logical conclusion is: so then Jehovah/Jesus is a gradual revelation of some other deity. Certainty doesn't matter. everyone was certain they worshipped the right set of gods.

And it's even right, as I argued elsewhere. Only it's not revelation, but evolution. Eventually we will outgrow the need for a deity at all. Hell, to a tenth century CE Christian, I'm sure most of today's Christians would seem little different from atheists.

Quote: Evenbob

I'm well aware of that approach. God
is subtle, they tell us, maybe he appeared
to you in a piece of toast, or made Mary
appear as a grease stain on the side of
a building. Didn't they sell that piece
of toast on Ebay?

I need a little more evidence than a weeping
statue in some village in Podunkville,
Movaria.

No, man, you're not seeing. It needn't be as obscure as the glint of dew on a spider web that catches your eye. Nor does it need be as profound as voices in the night. It really is all around you, you just need to look.

Look how I've struggled. I could write pages of rants on the last two months. But also look at the weather. God never gives you more than you can handle. This struggle has been a lesson, and by His grace, He gave me great weather. It's not vacation weather, but it was just enough so that I could persevere. Look how long He stayed sickness. I always get sick when the weather swaps. He held it off until late December. Look at that random guy who stopped me on my route. Ain't seen him before, ain't seen him sinse. But that one really bad day I had, right in the middle of 40 bad days and nights, he was there. It was his words that carried me. Where do you think he came from? Why him? Why then?

You look, but you don't see. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.




See? Fascinating.

Quote: Face

.

Great movie with a great ending. It's on Nflix,
maybe I'll watch it later.

Do you know hell is never mentioned in
the Old Testament even once? Neither
is the afterlife. It's an invention of those
who wrote the NT.

Quote: Evenbob

I'm well aware of that approach. God
is subtle, they tell us, maybe he appeared
to you in a piece of toast, or made Mary
appear as a grease stain on the side of
a building. Didn't they sell that piece
of toast on Ebay?

Not on a piece of toast. But have you ever been in a situation where you were led the right way? Ever had an impossible situation work itself out?

Quote: AZDuffman

But have you ever been in a situation where you were led the right way? Ever had an impossible situation work itself out?

Just as many times as I was led the wrong
way or the impossible situation never
worked out. Just like happens to everybody.
What you're describing is what all superstition
is based on. I had a rabbits foot on me and
won the lottery won me $1000. Blame the
foot.

This is the Mary toast.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4034787.stm