Did you ever notice?

Quote: FrGamble

Knowing what we know today I think any sane person would reject the idea that the universe has been here forever.

Are you saying I'm insane?

Quote: Nareed

Are you saying I'm insane?

Are you saying you wish to unblock each other and continue this discussion?

Quote: FrGamble

Are you saying you wish to unblock each other and continue this discussion?

Are you under the impression we're on civil terms?

Quote: FrGamble

Knowing what we know today I think any sane person would reject the idea that the universe has been here forever. .

In fact, the opposite is true. These people
don't sound insane at all.

"The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once."

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

Quote: Nareed

I'm glad to know this.

Now, how do you feel about Christians preaching against certain types of people? Like Jews, for example, saying they're all going to hell for refusing to "accept" Jesus? Or anyone who is LGBT? Or Muslims?

Jesus says:

Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. "

or from Luke 6: "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic[a] either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them."

I don't like Christians preaching against certain types of people. LGBT especially. There are greater problems in the world. Christians should treat LGB (not T, no mention) as sin. We are all sinners. I would say to welcome LGB into the churches and let them reconcile their sins with God, just like I need to do the same with my own sins. I think that ultimately, in a Christian belief system, God will judge.

As a church, you should never see a pastor promote LGB behavior as there really isn't a valid interpretation in the bible where this behavior is not sinful. Extreme liberal interpretations of the bible will denote LGB behavior as a sign of debauchery. I feel that LGB behavior between two people in an intent to be loving is not sinful. There are plenty of churches in the land that accepts LGB (United) and have LGB pastors.

And yeah, of course, anyone who does not believe in Jesus (such as you) given the opportunity to do so will burn in the fire. As Jesus reportedly said, "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)".

But I feel that you have the right to your own beliefs and that my belief in me being right has no scientific basis, so I don't push my beliefs onto you.

Quote: Evenbob

In fact, the opposite is true. These people
don't sound insane at all.

"The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once."

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

FrGamble doesn't understand the non-linearity of time. The big bang and the origin of the universe is still an unknown. It doesn't mean "God".

Did you read that interesting article you posted? In its theory that the universe is filled with an invisible quantum fluid they hope to answer some questions and get away from the common understanding of a Big Bang singularity. It is very interesting but definitely a science article. They can't escape the philosophical truth that a material thing that did not create itself must have had a cause.

Quote: boymimbo

FrGamble doesn't understand the non-linearity of time. The big bang and the origin of the universe is still an unknown. It doesn't mean "God".

I think I kind of understand what you are talking about and I agree. What it seems like people don't understand is the difference between contingent beings and a non-contingent one. I also don't think people are grasping the impossibility of an actual infinite or a infinite regress.

While the Big Bang only credibly points to the possibility of an origin of the universe, a theory widely accepted. I doesn't mean God, but if it is one day proven the universe was created ex nihilio then it makes the case for God very easy. Also I should be clear it makes the case for a generic spiritual eternal all-powerful "God" not necessarily the Christian understanding of God.

Quote: FrGamble

a material thing that did not create itself must have had a cause.

If the universe has been here forever,
there never was a cause. You're far
too hung up on beginnings and
endings, that's the philosophical
problem. We think we see starts and
ends, when what's really happening
is change. One thing is morphing into
something else. What looks like an
beginning to us is really nothing of the sort.

We're also trapped in linear time, we
can't think outside of it. When you
think about the universe in a non
linear manner, it's obviously been
here forever.

There are theories about how the universe could have come from nothing.

One of the greatest prophets of our time, Stephen Hawking, has one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Design_(book)

He doesn't believe that the universe has been here forever. He doesn't believe that a supernatural entity existing beyond the laws of nature is necessary either.

Is this a departure I read, that the supernatural creator of the universe, if there was one, may not have been the christian god?