Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

I would be very interested to hear these answers people are coming up with. Seriously, do you take a look around at our world today and think people are figuring it out and the world is becoming more peaceful, friendly, safe, and loving?

You mean more safe and loving since these 10 swept across the globe?
www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1308014/Ten-greatest-Historical-conquerors.html

That doesn't include the roman empire, the spanish conquistadors, the british empire, the napoleonic french, and hitler's germany.

Can you say we were any more safe then than we are now? One difference is recent wars of conquest have failed, where so many of the older ones I listed succeeded until they decayed and collapsed under their own weight of years or were conquered by the next wave.

The "nones" now outnumber the Catholics in the united states, yet the atheists and agnostics count for less than 5% of the population. "Nones" are "none of the above" when asking about religious affiliation.

The first thing that is apparent that they are figuring out is the traditional big 2 in the US - the Protestants and the Catholics - are not providing answers that they are satisfied with, so they are going elsewhere.

If the "secular rationalists" ( for lack of a better word ) are right, and there is no god and never was a god, you can see that art and beauty and compassion will survive, because it existed in the past and it exists now, without a god.

Belief in god is not required to create art - there are atheist artists. It is not required to show compassion or charity - look at all that Bill Gates is doing.

From another perspective, belief in god is not necessary for god to exist, and if our charity and altruism and consciousness are gifts from god, belief in god is not necessary to use them.

Quote: Dalex64

If the "secular rationalists" ( for lack of a better word ) are right, and there is no god and never was a god, you can see that art and beauty and compassion will survive, because it existed in the past and it exists now, without a god.

And spirituality, too.

I made that argument some months ago.

Quote:

Belief in god is not required to create art -

One of the more unpleasant aspects of the dark ages was the prevalence of Christian art to the exclusion of just about anything else. Even the great Renaissance masters indulged in that too much. Although they were also able to pull away and engage in other forms of expression.

Quote: FrGamble

Science can't answer the questions of why we are here? What is our purpose? Why do I struggle to do what I know is right? Is there life after death? Etc.

Religion cannot answer such questions, either. Stuck as every religion is at the time of its conception or shortly thereafter, and burdened as it is with dogma.

Any moral argument not taking Jehovah and Jesus into account, is deemed ipso-facto wrong, regardless of the evidence presented for it. Simply put, unless philosophical questions are considered within the framework of Christian orthodoxy (in whatever of its myriad variants), they are to be regarded as wrong.

Now, if science cannot be guided by scripture, what makes you think philosophy has to be?

We don't have a level playing field here, comparing and arguing religion vs science. It's like comparing apples and unicorns.

I think maybe I should take a deeper look at Hinduism. At first glance, it has these properties:

one of the oldest, longest lived religions in the world, if not the oldest
billions of adherents
survived periods of persecution (muslim rulership at one point)
answers moral and philosophical questions such as why are we here and how did we get here

as usual, a link to wikipedia for an overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

I think one big reason it isn't more widespread is that they don't have a belief in spreading their religion. no conquering and converting, no going door to door trying to convince people.

Quote: Dalex64

We don't have a level playing field here, comparing and arguing religion vs science. It's like comparing apples and unicorns.

It's also the wrong fight.

IMO, Americans tend to focus on it because the native Christian zealots hold so many unscientific beliefs (creationism being the most prominent) which they try to force on everyone else. At that, they're not unique or even very different from radical secular organizations with unscientific beliefs they want to force on everyone (like anti-GMO, or the whole nonsense about vaccines); except the latter don't threaten you with eternal damnation, or promise the wrath of God(TM) to rain down on your city or country to make you pay for your sins.

While there is an inherent conflict between religion and science, it's not so deep to preclude someone in one field from being interested or even practicing the other (so long as they're not fanatics who believe every word they pick and choose from the Bible is 100% literally true).

What science does is show there is no observational evidence at all to even suppose the existence of a deity. But it's also misused by religion to make its case. For example the notion that the universe has a definite and known beginning; we really don't know that's what the Big Bang was (and I've argued this a number of times).

Where is FrG, he missed the Simple Question
thread that Nareed started. I suspect he's
read it and agrees with all my points and
can think of nothing else to add.

Quote: Dalex64

I think maybe I should take a deeper look at Hinduism. At first glance, it has these properties:
.

Hinduism is one of the religions that
says the universe has been here forever.
They believe we are all part of god and
life is kind of like a play, with god playing
all the parts.

Quote: Dalex64

The first thing that is apparent that they are figuring out is the traditional big 2 in the US - the Protestants and the Catholics - are not providing answers that they are satisfied with, so they are going elsewhere.

How I wish people were seriously looking for answers to the mysteries and challenges of life. Instead we seem to be content with being entertained. As GK Chesterton famously said, "Christianity has not been tried and found wanted, it was found difficult and not tried." If people are looking for answers that satisfy their desire to not be challenged and conform their lives to truth then they will look in other places than the Gospel.

However, if they are seriously looking at the answers to the meaning of life and the dilemma of humanity then I am confident that they will find the answers they are looking for in Christianity.

Quote: Nareed

Now, if science cannot be guided by scripture, what makes you think philosophy has to be?

Philosophy and science are very different fields of knowledge. However, both need to be guided by truth.