Hey FrGamble!

Quote: FrGamble

You have shown yourself immune to logic .

That isn't logic, it's theory disguised as
logic. It's speculation, not logic.

I don't see where the universe began,
or where it can end. So LOGICALLY, it
has been here forever. Very simple,
very clean, very uncomplicated.

Quote: Dalex64

You keep saying that, but what makes you right and everyone else wrong? The only answer is because that is what you believe to be true.

Yes, but there are reasons behind what I believe as I imagine and hope there are for you. Everyone should think deeply and openly about these fundamental important questions and come to their own conclusions about what they believe. A fool would not ask them or a fool would just believe them to be true without really questioning them. The answers are not going to be found in scientific textbooks, where it is easy. No, these questions require the hard work of philosophy. This circles back to the good question you were asking why is religion in decline in certain societies today.

Occam's Razor:

Quote:

In science Occam's razor evaluates
only hypotheses with similar predictive
power Each hypothesis being evaluated must be able to
predict the same final state. If a theory has no
predictive power (such as Goddidit) then it is automatically excluded due to being impossible
to evaluate.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Note it is used to compare several hypothesis which have the same conclusion. The simpler explanation is more likely, BUT NOT GUARANTEED, to be correct.

Quote: FrGamble

Everyone should think deeply and openly about these fundamental important questions .

You mean we should dream up complicated
questions and then figure out the non answers.

This is the exact opposite approach zen uses.
Their goal is to uncomplicate it all and get our
egos entirely out of the equation. That's all
religions like Christianity are, mans ego worshiped
to the nth degree.

Quote: FrGamble

Yes, but there are reasons behind what I believe as I imagine and hope there are for you. Everyone should think deeply and openly about these fundamental important questions and come to their own conclusions about what they believe. A fool would not ask them or a fool would just believe them to be true without really questioning them. The answers are not going to be found in scientific textbooks, where it is easy. No, these questions require the hard work of philosophy. This circles back to the good question you were asking why is religion in decline in certain societies today.

Yes, and I think it is because people are coming to the conclusion that they don't need religion to answer these questions.

This one is called "Newton's Flaming Laser Sword" on the rationalwiki page:

Quote:

"What cannot be settled by experiment is not worth debating."

Quote: Evenbob

This is the exact opposite approach zen uses.
Their goal is to uncomplicate it all and get our
egos entirely out of the equation.

Really when it all boils down to it nothing could be more simple than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Quote: Dalex64

Yes, and I think it is because people are coming to the conclusion that they don't need religion to answer these questions.

I would be very interested to hear these answers people are coming up with. Seriously, do you take a look around at our world today and think people are figuring it out and the world is becoming more peaceful, friendly, safe, and loving?

"What cannot be settled by experiment is not worth debating."

OMG! Such nonsense. This flaming laser sword is more like the nuclear bomb that destroys all life, wisdom, art, love, and history. It is pure poppycock and the perfect conclusion for robots who believe in scientism or materialism. You would have to be a robot to believe such inhuman and strange ideas, I am seriously disappointed you would even bring it up. Yuck, I'm glad I'm getting out of town for a few days.

No, I really do like our discussions and debates about these things that cannot be settled by experiment but only by real thinking and reason. God Bless you all!

Quote: FrGamble

Really when it all boils down to it nothing could be more simple than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You must be speaking in jest. It's so
complicated and vague that there are
3000 separate cults who use the NT
as their holy book. And they all think
and can show theirs is the correct one.