Hey FrGamble!

I suppose God created parallel universes to, right Padre?

https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/nasa-finds-evidence-of-parallel-universe-where-time-runs-backward-report/

Quote: aceofspades

I suppose God created parallel universes to, right Padre?
https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/nasa-finds-evidence-of-parallel-universe-where-time-runs-backward-report/

Nobody created anything, it's
the process of eternal evolution.

What's fascinating is, because
the universe is infinite, wherever
you are is it's center. The early
Church got that part right, earth
is the center of the universe. It
felt that way to them because
they themselves felt like the
center. Which they were.

There are Native American tribes
that will pick a tree and make
it the center of the universe and
worship it. They get it, they don't
over think it to death like the god
religions do.

Quote: aceofspades

I suppose God created parallel universes to, right Padre?

https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/nasa-finds-evidence-of-parallel-universe-where-time-runs-backward-report/

Of course. If there are parallel universes God created them.

Quote: Evenbob

You just assume there was
nothing because it fits your
narrative. The universe has
been here forever, there
never was 'nothing'. We
can't wrap our minds around
that because we've been trained
wrong. There is even science
now that says the universe is
so infinitely large that multiple
big bang are going off all the
time creating billions more
galaxies.

I guess I have a couple of questions then? What was before the Big Bang and where did the something that was there beforehand come from?

What is causing all these Big Bangs you speak of?

Quote: FrGamble

I guess I have a couple of questions then? What was before the Big Bang and where did the something that was there beforehand come from?

What is causing all these Big Bangs you speak of?

Are we all now existing at some point in the infinity that you claim your deity started?

Quote: FrGamble

I guess I have a couple of questions then? What was before the Big Bang and where did the something that was there beforehand come from?

What is causing all these Big Bangs you speak of?

I can't answer any of your questions. But because I am limited in my understanding of time, infinity, the beginning, matter, energy, light, it doesn't mean I have to make up a God to explain it. It is possible I (and humanity) will eventually figure them out. Like we now have a decent handle on matter, energy, and light. I am willing to admit my limitations, and do not need to say "God" to answer all the questions I can't right now.

Quote: SOOPOO

I can't answer any of your questions. But because I am limited in my understanding of time, infinity, the beginning, matter, energy, light, it doesn't mean I have to make up a God to explain it. It is possible I (and humanity) will eventually figure them out. Like we now have a decent handle on matter, energy, and light. I am willing to admit my limitations, and do not need to say "God" to answer all the questions I can't right now.

You won't understand until you overcome your prejudice that God is just a made up answer. Maybe you are still thinking that God in the context of our discussion means someone's specific view of God or religious beliefs. We are NOT talking about some "god of the gaps" fallacy. We are talking about the source, cause, and reason for all existence.

I appreciate your optimism for humanity and in many ways I share in it. We will continue to figure out all kinds of things. There is some limits of course, which you admit. For example science could never speak about what came before things like matter, time, energy existed because it needs something to observe. That is why you can't wait until we scientifically figure out what was there before anything material came into being? You will be waiting forever because it is impossible. I want to say again I don't think it is impossible because I don't think humanity is not brilliant and amazing. I only say it because it is clear science has limits. However, the human intellect does not have those same limits so in turning towards philosophy and using logic and what we do know about the natural world we have already figured out there is a "God". Again, please understand me here. I am not talking about Jesus or Allah or the FSM. I'm talking about the necessary supernatural being/force/power that is eternal and created all contingent material things. This is simply because of the impossibility of an actual infinite regress and that material things do not have the reason for their existence in themselves, they are dependent or contingent. This philosophically logical argument is supported by things like an expanding universe, the laws of thermodynamics, the laws of motion, etc. However even without them any person with just the unaided human mind can say and has said, "Anything that comes into existence has a cause (it didn't just pop out of nothing). Everything in the universe, including the universe itself has come into existence (it is logical and scientifically impossible for material contingent things to be eternal) . Therefore the universe and all it contains has a cause (a cause we commonly refer to as God)."

Quote: FrGamble

What was before the Big Bang and where did the something that was there beforehand come from?

There is no 'beforehand', it had
no start. It's always been here.
There is no before, only ongoing.
You think you see beginnings
and endings when what you really
see is never ending evolution's.

You reverse engineer everything
and say if this and that and the
other thing happened, there has
to be a god involved. So you
invent one to make the story
complete. You think you see a
creation so you invent a creator.

Quote: Evenbob

There is no 'beforehand', it had
no start. It's always been here.

Why do you say that? A table has not always been there, nor the tree that gave the wood, nor the forest in which it grew, nor the planet on which it lived, etc. Were things always here just in their elemental form? Obviously nothing you or I have ever seen has been here forever, we know our planet formed some billions of years ago, likewise the Sun, etc. When you say "It's always been here." do you mean that the hydrogen atoms and carbon items have always been here? Or the electrons and protons were always here? What makes them move and combine? If some material thing had existed for infinity why would it not have reached full entropy or decayed away as we know all things do? I think the faith it takes to think things have miraculously always existed without a cause is unreasonable.

Quote: FrGamble

Obviously nothing you or I have ever seen has been here forever,

Everything in the universe has
been here in one form or another
forever. Here's an experiment for
you. Take a piece of paper outside
and set it on fire. Poof, it's gone.

No it's not. You just transformed it
into heat, other chemicals, ash, etc.
It no longer exists as paper, but as
something else entirely. You think
you saw an end but you only saw a
transformation. And what it transformed
into will end up being transformed
into other things.

You look at the galaxies and think
you see a creation. So you invent
a creator.