Hey FrGamble!

Quote: SOOPOO

And explain why he is so inscrutable that he fools entire races of people into believing in the wrong guy?

I do think that there is one true God and one of the hallmarks of such a God would probably be that He was not confined primarily to one race, nationality, or type of person. I think this is pretty obvious and I wouldn't blame God that some people don't want to let go of the idea that God favors one race or nationality more so than everyone else.

Quote: FrGamble

I do think that there is one true God and one of the hallmarks of such a God would probably be that He was not confined primarily to one race, nationality, or type of person. I think this is pretty obvious and I wouldn't blame God that some people don't want to let go of the idea that God favors one race or nationality more so than everyone else.

that's not my point. Over the course of human history post Christ's life on earth, there have been BILLIONS of people that never heard of him. No idea that anything other than their own rice farm is the world. Why is Jesus hiding his existence from them? They are not worthy of his love?

He has created all things and reveals Himself in many ways. Those who through no fault of their own do not know Him are still loved and saved through His mercy. They are very much worthy of His love as are all people.

Quote: FrGamble

He has created all things and reveals Himself in many ways. Those who through no fault of their own do not know Him are still loved and saved through His mercy. They are very much worthy of His love as are all people.

Why is that? Why would he not reveal himself to those billions? i have heard over my lifetime that it is paramount 'to accept Jesus as the Lord' or something like that. Why do those billions not even have that opportunity?

Quote: FrGamble

Bob your attempt to find obscure and confusing scientists to escape the logical necessity.

Obscure to you and your Church,
just like most of science is. The
concept of an eternal universe
goes back before the start of
Hinduism, the oldest religion.

Every living thing on earth
gives birth to itself and goes
on. Bugs, frogs, lions, grass,
trees, you name it, it replicates
itself. It's only logical that the
universe periodically gives
birth to itself also.

The earth is a living organism.

"Gaia theory sees the biota and the rocks, the air, and the oceans as existing as a tightly coupled entity."

What makes us think the universe
is any different. The universe going
on forever makes a heck of a lot
more sense than some entity sitting
out there snapping his fingers and
playing god. For primitive people
that worked, it doesn't make sense
anymore.

Quote: SOOPOO

Why is that? Why would he not reveal himself to those billions? i have heard over my lifetime that it is paramount 'to accept Jesus as the Lord' or something like that. Why do those billions not even have that opportunity?

You are talking about those who lived before Christ? I don't know why the Lord didn't come at a different time or place. I think in places that do not actively persecute religion the Gospel has been shared of God sharing our human nature, teaching us how to live and to love and giving us hope through His victory over sin and death. God in His love and mercy gave those billions and every human person a way to come to know Him and to share in the gift of eternal life.

Quote: FrGamble

You are talking about those who lived before Christ?.

No! The masses in Africa/Asia/Australia/South America/North America that lived before anyone who believed in Christ could try and 'show them the way'. Those Billions.

Quote: FrGamble

You are talking about those who lived before Christ? I don't know why the Lord didn't come at a different time or place. I think in places that do not actively persecute religion the Gospel has been shared of God sharing our human nature, teaching us how to live and to love and giving us hope through His victory over sin and death. God in His love and mercy gave those billions and every human person a way to come to know Him and to share in the gift of eternal life.

To quote Tim Rice's on point lyrics from Superstar:

Every time I look at you
I don't understand
Why you let the things you did
Get so out of hand
You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?

If you'd come today
You could have reached a whole nation
Israel in 4 BC
Had no mass communication


Don't you get me wrong
Only want to know
Jesus Christ
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?
Jesus Christ
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?
Jesus Christ
Superstar
Do you think you're what they say you are?
Jesus Christ
Superstar
Do you think you're what they say you are?

Tell me what you think
About your friends at the top
Now who do you think besides yourself
Was the pick of the crop?
Buddah was he where it's at?
Is he where you are?
Could Mohamed move a mountain
Or was that just PR?
Did you mean to die like that?
Was that a mistake or
Did you know your messy death
Would be a record breaker?

Don't you get me wrong
Only want to know
Jesus Christ
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?
Jesus Christ
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?
Jesus Christ
Superstar
Do you think you're what they say you are?
Jesus Christ
Superstar
Do you think you're what they say you are?
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ
Who are you? What have you sacrificed?
Jesus Christ
Superstar
Do you think you're what they say you are?
Jesus Christ
Superstar
Do you think you're what they say you are?

Quote: Evenbob

The
concept of an eternal universe
goes back before the start of
Hinduism

I know. Some people even try to believe it now in the face of clear scientific evidence and philosophical arguments that show the universe had a beginning. Some people just can't get with the times and like to ignore science.

Quote:

Every living thing on earth
gives birth to itself and goes
on. Bugs, frogs, lions, grass,
trees, you name it, it replicates
itself. It's only logical that the
universe periodically gives
birth to itself also.

Wait, I don't think I follow you. The universe gives birth to itself? Does it need a partner perhaps?

Also your examples about bugs, frogs, lions, etc. is a perfect way for you to realize why material created things cannot go back forever. I think you realize now that an actual infinite regress is logical fallacy and impossibility. Explaining why a frog is here by pointing to another frog and then when asked why that one exists and pointing to another frog in the past and so on and so forth will eventually get you to the end of all frogs, the first frog. From that point you have to explain your original frog by pointing to something else and the problem will continue till you finally after these many years of arguing arrive at God. The same thing will happen if you claim that universes can reproduce. In fact your theory will get you to understand the reality of God very quickly. Just keep going backwards as universes give birth to themselves over and over again and finally you will see that you run into a problem. You can't keep going back forever because as you posted not so long ago that is a fallacy. So when you get back to the question about where the first universe came into being you will finally arrive at God.

Quote: SOOPOO

No! The masses in Africa/Asia/Australia/South America/North America that lived before anyone who believed in Christ could try and 'show them the way'. Those Billions.

God reached them in His own way before the Gospel of Jesus Christ was shared with them. He is God and He does love all people and desire all to be saved, I think they can know God in various ways as they await the coming of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.