Hey FrGamble!

Quote: aceofspades

What about the zero evidence that God exists?

There is lots of evidence that God exists, why would you say that?

Quote: FrGamble

There is lots of evidence that God exists, why would you say that?

FrG.... you sort of know me..... You know I'm a doctor.... that my years of training is basically using signs and symptoms.... (evidence!) and training to evaluate the evidence.... make a plan for a patient... and execute that plan....

All you relay to us is NOT evidence....

It IS hope.... faith.... love...... prayer.... but you have presented NOTHING that can be construed as evidence......

A cynic would say you present folly.... lies.... fables.....

Can't you leave at at there is no evidence that God does NOT exist? I will never be able to prove that there is no God. I understand that it is often impossible to prove a negative. But you have offered no PROOF that God exists. If so, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

What more evidence do you need that something cannot come from nothing? The fact that things exist that do not have the reason for their existence in themselves means that everything is contigent on there being a non-contigent force, power, entity we call God. This seems to be as clear as you can get.

In regards to medicine there is clear evidence of universal principles of morality. Selfishness and greed do not lead to true happiness and destroys lives. Many other examples could be used. Knowing you are loved and serving others leads to fulfillment and a sense of peace.

Then you have things like miracles and history that point to God as well as the personal experiences of people and the impact God has truly had in their lives. It is amazing that intellegient people would even say that there is no evidence much less allude to lies or fables.

Quote: FrGamble

What more evidence do you need that something cannot come from nothing?

Who ever said there was nothing.
It's something you assume to
fit your narrative. You want there
to be a creator god so you say
there was nothing, like it's a
proven fact. You totally ignore
the possibility that the universe
(not the galaxies themselves,
the universe the galaxies are in)
might have been here forever.
That makes a whole lot more
sense than some silly god snapped
his fingers and everything popped
into existence.

That's like something you read in
an old book of made up stories.
Wait, that's exactly where you got
the idea from..

Bob science and logic tell us that the material natural world could not be eternal. Look up an infinite regress and the laws of thermodynamics.

Quote: FrGamble

What more evidence do you need that something cannot come from nothing? The fact that things exist that do not have the reason for their existence in themselves means that everything is contigent on there being a non-contigent force, power, entity we call God. This seems to be as clear as you can get.

In regards to medicine there is clear evidence of universal principles of morality. Selfishness and greed do not lead to true happiness and destroys lives. Many other examples could be used. Knowing you are loved and serving others leads to fulfillment and a sense of peace.

Then you have things like miracles and history that point to God as well as the personal experiences of people and the impact God has truly had in their lives. It is amazing that intellegient people would even say that there is no evidence much less allude to lies or fables.

But, as I argued quite a few pages ago, you are saying God came from nothing

Quote: aceofspades

But, as I argued quite a few pages ago, you are saying God came from nothing

No God is the neccessary reality that stops the infinite regress. God is not a created thing but the reason for all created things. He holds existence in Himself. When you start asking where God came from you have lost the true sense of God. God is that which is. God is existence and everything shares existence with God. I don't know how many ways you would like me to try and phrase it but you need to think much bigger when you are thinking about the nature of God.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob science and logic tell us.

Why do science and logic always
tell you things it never tells anybody
else. Applying science and logic to
a supernatural religion is like eating
soup with a fork. An exercise in
futility. And it just makes people
angry..

infinite regress
a fallacy in which the argument proposes an explanation, but the mechanism proposed stands just as much in need of explanation as the original fact to be explained — and indeed it stands in need of the same kind of explanation. so it is tempting to apply the explanation to itself.

So an infinite regress only works
if you apply it's explanation to
itself. That's why it's called a fallacy.

fal·la·cy
/ˈfaləsē/
a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument.

Get it now? Quit presenting regress
like it means anything valid.

Quote: Evenbob

Why do science and logic always
tell you things it never tells anybody
else. Applying science and logic to
a supernatural religion is like eating
soup with a fork. An exercise in
futility. And it just makes people
angry..

infinite regress
a fallacy in which the argument proposes an explanation, but the mechanism proposed stands just as much in need of explanation as the original fact to be explained — and indeed it stands in need of the same kind of explanation. so it is tempting to apply the explanation to itself.

So an infinite regress only works
if you apply it's explanation to
itself. That's why it's called a fallacy.

fal·la·cy
/ˈfaləsē/
a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument.

Get it now? Quit presenting regress
like it means anything valid.

Oh my goodness, Bob I think you totally misread or did not understand your own post. Infinite regress is not a logical fallacy it explains a logical fallacy such as you saying that this current moment is dependent on the previous moment ,etc., etc. onto infinity. Do you see how that is a fallacy. You propose an explination that is in just as much need as the original fact to be explained. You keep this up and seem to think it is not a problem to go on to infinity. However, if you read your post again you are falling exactly into the logical fallacy of using an actual infinite regress.

I really hope that through what seems like your honest mistake you will come to see why your argument on material things that exist in time cannot be eternal. This is thanks to the logical requirement that we avoid the Infinite Regress fallacy.

Quote: FrGamble

No God is the neccessary reality that stops the infinite regress. God is not a created thing but the reason for all created things. He holds existence in Himself. When you start asking where God came from you have lost the true sense of God. God is that which is. God is existence and everything shares existence with God. I don't know how many ways you would like me to try and phrase it but you need to think much bigger when you are thinking about the nature of God.

Padre - God is it's own infinite regression