Hey FrGamble!

The happiest people I ever met was when I was on mission to Zimbabwae. They had nothing in the way of material goods but they would make the average American jealous with the joy and peace they have.

Now we don't want to be naive or stupid and think that poverty leads to happiness. Just like no one with a brain would say riches leads to happiness. I think the happiness you are marvelling at hinges on one thing, religion. You keep saying this Indian family has no God but that's not true. Just look around their home, they have more gods than I have crucifixes. Only a faith in the supernatural and hope that we are made for more than this, that ultimate happiness is possible, true justice a certainty, creation and my life were not an accident can bring that happiness. You couldn't really compare the despair that a family in poverty might feel if they were atheists because I very much doubt you could find one. Maybe the closest you could come is to notice the poor in secuarlized Europe that you keep pointing out. I promise you that if you came to know the God who loves you that your life would be much happier too.

Quote: FrGamble

I promise you that if you came to know the God who loves you that your life would be much happier too.

This you and I can agree on. People who have an unshakable belief in God have the ability to be happy in the face of events that should make you unhappy. Child dies? With God now. Paralyzed due to stroke? God's will. Coronavirus? God must have a plan. Another million die this year of malaria? It's God's will. Fired from job? God must want me to do something else.
Atheist answers to same events.
That sucks. That sucks. This sucks. This sucks. I suck.
Your belief in God takes away any rational thought to the events. But the true belief makes you happy in the face of anything. I must admit I am sometimes jealous of the true believers, but fortunately (or unfortunately?) the rational part of my brain runs the roost.

Quote: SOOPOO

This you and I can agree on. People who have an unshakable belief in God have the ability to be happy in the face of events that should make you unhappy. Child dies? With God now. Paralyzed due to stroke? God's will. Coronavirus? God must have a plan. Another million die this year of malaria? It's God's will. Fired from job? God must want me to do something else.
Atheist answers to same events.
That sucks. That sucks. This sucks. This sucks. I suck.
Your belief in God takes away any rational thought to the events. But the true belief makes you happy in the face of anything. I must admit I am sometimes jealous of the true believers, but fortunately (or unfortunately?) the rational part of my brain runs the roost.

Having hope is not irrational. Believe me believers in God also say, "that sucks!" However it is important, in fact necessary for us to really deal with problems when they come. The atheist answer cannot be just, "That sucks". That is as irrational as saying it is God's will. There needs to be something more for both the believer and non-believer. When you hear a believer say "God has a plan" you can translate that as, "this is a challenge that is beyond my control but I can learn from, grow stronger through, and not give up." A non believer who says, "that sucks" needs to do more or life would be overwhelming. Sometimes the atheist response is pretty much the same as the Christian, "don't give up, keep working, learn from this." Admittedly this is harder for the atheist without the worldview that supports and encourages this type of attitude. Often times how both atheists and believers deal with the sucky parts of life is to ignore it or seek some quick pleasure or fleeting entertainment.

Quote: FrGamble

The happiest people I ever met was when I was on mission to Zimbabwae.

Because nobody told them they
should be unhappy. Just like in
India. Unhappiness comes from
comparison, always measuring
your life against others lives.
Like we're taught to do in the West.

Quote:

Just look around their home, they have more gods than I have crucifixes

Wow, this stunned me. Your lack
of knowledge of cultures other
than the one you embrace is
mind boggling. I'm convinced
you have no idea what a 'god'
even is. You obviously think
they're all the same. That's how
you can be an atheist towards
all the other gods in the world
and be a slave to the teeny tiny
one you embrace.

If you have ever been a member off any Christian group,
you know the only proof they have of god's existence is
anecdotal evidence in the form of testimonies from other
members. Getting together as a group and given testimony
is a really big deal. People get to tell the group what god is
doing in their lives. The better a storyteller they are, the
more seriously their story is taken. When I was a Christian
I even heard people say things like, wow, this is all really
true isn't it. Meaning the religion. They're never 100%
sure, they're always looking for clues that it is.

Because that's all they have to go on is the anecdotal
'evidence' of other members. How many times here has
FRG said to just take his word for it, just believe his story,
just trust his testimony that there is a god. That's because
the flimsy so-called evidence of anecdotal testimony is
what holds the religion together. Everybody believes
everybody else. To an outsider it's obvious what's going
on, but to those on the inside who want to desperately
believe, anecdotal 'evidence' is more than enough for them.
Humans are soooo susceptible to suggestion it's frightening.

Seeking safety from the herd.

Quote: Evenbob

How many times here has
FRG said to just take his word for it, just believe his story,
just trust his testimony that there is a god. That's because
the flimsy so-called evidence of anecdotal testimony is
what holds the religion together.

Never have I said that.

Quote:

Humans are soooo susceptible to suggestion it's frightening.

This is true and you are evidence of it.

Quote: FrGamble

Never have I said that.

You say you've never said that
we should just trust your
testimony? Just trust the
experience you've had?

ARE YOU FRICKING KIDDING ME????????

You've said it over and over for
years! You've said again and
again we should trust the testimonies
of Xtians, including yourself, as
proof that there is a god. You've
pointed out to me again and again,
why do I take the anecdotal evidence
on things like reincarnation as valid,
and dismiss the testimony of Xtians.

Now you're saying you never said
these things? Wha??????????

Here is what you said Bob:

Quote: Evenbob

How many times here has
FRG said to just take his word for it, just believe his story,
just trust his testimony that there is a god.

I have never said JUST take my word for it. I have consistently presented lists of evidence and reasons (all of which you ignore). But I have NEVER said just have blind faith and believe me. Always remember it is you who have blind faith, not me. Even if you don't accept any evidence for God at least there is some attempt. Your belief that there is no God is completely devoid of reason or evidence, you really need to remind yourself of that often. In fact when pressed about why you are an atheist and what evidence you have, often you just say something strange like: "because it is obvious" or "I feel that way".

Anyway, I don't want to attack you I just want to show where you misunderstand me. When I say believe my story I do hope you believe me. I hope you would not think that I would just make up stories about my faith. It is very real to me and I reckon you believe me about that. However, my story is NOT your story. You shouldn't believe because of my story or anyone else's! You should write your own story.

Another thing you might misunderstand is that when I point out my testimony and the testimony of billions of other people that you want to just dismiss as some form of hypnosis or mental illness you are doing yourself a great disservice. Not only are you being discriminatory, but you are being foolish and mean. Don't believe because of the billions, I have NEVER said that. However, look at what that possibly points to and consider it seriously.

Quote: FrGamble

Here is what you said Bob:


I have never said JUST take my word for it. I have consistently presented lists of evidence and reasons (all of which you ignore). But I have NEVER said just have blind faith and believe me. Always remember it is you who have blind faith, not me. Even if you don't accept any evidence for God at least there is some attempt. Your belief that there is no God is completely devoid of reason or evidence, you really need to remind yourself of that often. In fact when pressed about why you are an atheist and what evidence you have, often you just say something strange like: "because it is obvious" or "I feel that way".

You have said that the proof you have is your belief. And also the further evidence you have is that other people believe. When pagans gathered and told stories about how the gods crossed the galaxy on magic horses, it passed on to other generations which was their "proof". It worked until it didn't.

Non believers do not get up in the morning and have this internal conversation in their heads about can they continue to not believe. That is preposterous. There is no supernatural entity to argue with themselves about.

Quote:

... When I say believe my story I do hope you believe me. I hope you would not think that I would just make up stories about my faith. It is very real to me and I reckon you believe me about that. However, my story is NOT your story.....

But, it is a story.

Quote:

Another thing you might misunderstand is that when I point out my testimony and the testimony of billions of other people that you want to just dismiss as some form of hypnosis or mental illness you are doing yourself a great disservice. Not only are you being discriminatory, but you are being foolish and mean. Don't believe because of the billions, I have NEVER said that. However, look at what that possibly points to and consider it seriously.

I am convinced that the absolute majority take the path of least resistance. For many, repeating bible stories is JUST that, repeating stories because it is easier than the alternative.