Hey FrGamble!

Quote: SOOPOO

Ok, Pope FrG!

You do know that there is a charge to get into the Vatican to see the artwork, .

As I said, the Church is now
and always has been a money
making machine using religion
as the front. Oh Bob, you couldn't
be more wrong. I sent FrG a
lonnnng long scholarly article
with tons of footnotes on how
the Church got so wealthy. He
never commented on it even
tho I asked him many times.
They're crooks, plain and simple.

Quote: aceofspades

What percentage of the poor, spending their days to figure out where they will get clean water and a bite of food, are concerned with being uplifted by art?

100% We all long for the beautiful just as we long to eat and drink. A life with food and drink but without beauty and without something to ponder above the mundane is another source of poverty.

SOOPOO, where do you think the most valuable works of art are? The most beautiful and greatest works are in the Churches which are always free and open (outside of Coronavirus times) for all to enjoy. Not only are you underestimating and overestimating things you also may be exaggerating things a bit. I love that you hold the Church to such a high standard and I do too, however I painfully realize that it like everything else is run by sinful people who are far from perfect. Maybe you are being a bit too pie in the sky when you ask the Church to solve world hunger by selling some artwork and to stop charging to come and see its museum. Sometimes you have to settle for being the largest charitable organization on the face of the Earth and spreading the Good News of God's love and the hope of eternal life.

Quote: FrGamble

100% We all long for the beautiful just as we long to eat and drink.

Climb down from your ivory tower
and ask poverty stricken hungry
people with no clean water what
they'd rather have. Good food and
water, or some art to stare at. Keep
your art is what they'll say every
time.

Quote:

I painfully realize that it like everything else is run by sinful people who are far from perfect.

This is always your go to excuse
for every major screw up the
Church has been involved in for
the last 1500 years. Oh well, you
say, we aren't perfect. We're flawed
like everybody else. Nice try. You
present yourselves as the moral
arbiters. You look down your noses
at the world and pass judgments.

Even you own pope agrees that
they are too judgmental.

Pope Urges Catholics to Be More Inclusive, Less Judgmental

Francis makes clear that he wants nothing short of a revolution, saying "The church must no longer sit in judgment and 'throw stones' against those who fail to live up to the Gospel’s ideals." "While clearly stating the Church's standing, priests are to avoid judgments that do not take into account the complexity of various situations"

Nonjudgmental priests, the
original oxymoron.

Quote: FrGamble

100% We all long for the beautiful just as we long to eat and drink. A life with food and drink but without beauty and without something to ponder above the mundane is another source of poverty.

SOOPOO, where do you think the most valuable works of art are? The most beautiful and greatest works are in the Churches which are always free and open (outside of Coronavirus times) for all to enjoy. Not only are you underestimating and overestimating things you also may be exaggerating things a bit. I love that you hold the Church to such a high standard and I do too, however I painfully realize that it like everything else is run by sinful people who are far from perfect. Maybe you are being a bit too pie in the sky when you ask the Church to solve world hunger by selling some artwork and to stop charging to come and see its museum. Sometimes you have to settle for being the largest charitable organization on the face of the Earth and spreading the Good News of God's love and the hope of eternal life.

You look at charity differently.

Charity is when you give something that belongs to you away without expecting anything in return.

If you decide to hand your paycheck over to a panhandler, or someone ringing the bell over a red kettle, that is charity.

If you hoard wealth and logically distribute churches around the world, and by subtle means expect donations, that is a business model. As is Goodwill industry's.

https://www.exodus20.com/questions/the-vatican-wealth/

"In 2014, Pope Francis raffled off his espresso machine and various gifts he received in an act of kindness to help the poor."

Quote: FrGamble

100% We all long for the beautiful just as we long to eat and drink. A life with food and drink but without beauty and without something to ponder above the mundane is another source of poverty.

SOOPOO, where do you think the most valuable works of art are? The most beautiful and greatest works are in the Churches which are always free and open (outside of Coronavirus times) for all to enjoy. Not only are you underestimating and overestimating things you also may be exaggerating things a bit. I love that you hold the Church to such a high standard and I do too, however I painfully realize that it like everything else is run by sinful people who are far from perfect. Maybe you are being a bit too pie in the sky when you ask the Church to solve world hunger by selling some artwork and to stop charging to come and see its museum. Sometimes you have to settle for being the largest charitable organization on the face of the Earth and spreading the Good News of God's love and the hope of eternal life.

Well will you agree with this then?

"We are doing a lot to help the poor, downtrodden, etc..."

As opposed to "We are doing as much as possible to help the poor, downtrodden, etc..."..... because this statement is patently false.

Quote: SOOPOO

Well will you agree with this then?

"We are doing a lot to help the poor, downtrodden, etc..."

As opposed to "We are doing as much as possible to help the poor, downtrodden, etc..."..... because this statement is patently false.

Yes I will agree to your first statement.

Quote: petroglyph

If you hoard wealth and logically distribute churches around the world, and by subtle means expect donations, that is a business model. As is Goodwill industry's.

Exactly right. The Church is not a
charity, it's a philanthropic
institution. Like Bill and Melinda
Gates. There is a big difference
between charity and philanthropy:

Charity tends to be a short-term, emotional, immediate response, focused primarily on rescue and relief, whereas philanthropy is much more long-term, more strategic, focused on rebuilding.

The Church loves to call it charity
because it's a word that has
positive aspects. A philanthropy
is just a rich guy or institution
giving away a small portion of
it's wealth. Big deal.

Quote: Evenbob

Exactly right. The Church is not a
charity, it's a philanthropic
institution. Like Bill and Melinda
Gates. There is a big difference
between charity and philanthropy:

Charity tends to be a short-term, emotional, immediate response, focused primarily on rescue and relief, whereas philanthropy is much more long-term, more strategic, focused on rebuilding.

I definitely like your definition of philanthropy better, thanks.

Quote: Evenbob

Exactly right. The Church is not a
charity, it's a philanthropic
institution. Like Bill and Melinda
Gates. There is a big difference
between charity and philanthropy:

Charity tends to be a short-term, emotional, immediate response, focused primarily on rescue and relief, whereas philanthropy is much more long-term, more strategic, focused on rebuilding.

The Church loves to call it charity
because it's a word that has
positive aspects. A philanthropy
is just a rich guy or institution
giving away a small portion of
it's wealth. Big deal.

Great post. I tend to be charitable, not philanthropic. I'm easily hit up by a specific event, but don't make long term giving plans without a specific event. I can't tell you how many 'bike ride for....' I donated to last year, but it's a lot....

If you don't count the sex abuse scandal, and the countless murdered during the Crusades, and the continuous war with islam, the Church has probably been the number one philanthropic organization throughout history.

This is one of the guys I follow on YouTube. Here
he's touring one of the poor sections of Delhi.
Look how friendly and outgoing and happy the
poverty-stricken people are. They have no god,
no personal god to worship. They have no idea
they should be miserable knowing that they are
constant sinners bound for hell. They need some
Christians to go in there and set them straight.

Look at the conditions this wonderful family
lives with. Then look at how happy and sweet
and friendly they are. How is this possible
with no god to worship. Find a family in similar
conditions in E EU and they will be dour and
resentful and unhappy.

Harold went back the next day and gifted this
amazing family with $1000 US dollars. The
gorgeous daughter in red literally jumped for
joy again and again. Harold gets the money
from a Patreon account where people donate
just for things like this. I am one of the donors.