Easter Is Coming in 8 Weeks

Quote: beachbumbabs

I was taught that "40 days and 40 nights" in the Bible means "nobody really tracked how long it was, but it was a period of time", ...

Thanks. I've always wondered why so many events in the bible took exactly 40 days and 40 nights.

You might have an answer to this one too. If Jesus was crucified on a Friday and, allegedly, rose on a Sunday, then he would have spent two nights in the tomb, Friday and Saturday night. Then why does it say he spent "three days and three nights" in the tomb. I can dig up the verse upon request.

Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I've always wondered why so many events in the bible took exactly 40 days and 40 nights.

You might have an answer to this one too. If Jesus was crucified on a Friday and, allegedly, rose on a Sunday, then he would have spent two nights in the tomb, Friday and Saturday night. Then why does it say he spent "three days and three nights" in the tomb. I can dig up the verse upon request.

I agree with your questioning this, actually. I think it was alliterative hyperbole when telling the story. But it could also relate to how they counted days and nights, with parts of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday in the dark all counting as night, and the crucifixion occurring during the day Friday, the discovery of Christ's rising Sunday during the day, so those part days counting as "days".

Quote: beachbumbabs

In light of what we now know about the body, its capabilities, and its healing resources, it seems entirely plausible that Jesus was crucified, wounded in the abdomen, died by all indications of that time, was placed in the tomb, and yet lived and walked the earth again. Crucifixion places unnatural pressure on the diaphragm and lungs, and he could have near-suffocated or become unconscious, even comatose, been body-dead by their medical standards, and yet recovered and woken in the tomb. He would have had all the stigmata to prove the event, healed or not.

See? That makes sense.

Was a dude in the NHL, last year I think, who died on the bench. Heart problems, if I remember right. Came to the bench and collapsed. They had to do CPR, break out the defib, it was a scene. They carted him back to the locker room, got his heart started, shocked it back into rhythm... and the guy asked to be put back on the ice.

Was another guy, very recently. Was brain dead, vegetative state for some twelve years. Ah, but he wasn't. He just couldn't move. He was awake the whole time, trapped in a body that didn't work. 12 years later, he just "woke up".

Watch those war documentaries. Tons of stories of guys getting blown up, parts all over, holes in them, etc. They're knocked out, low pulse on account of blood loss, can't find pulse, are left for dead. Then they wake up some hours later and crawl back to base.

But faith makes all this moot. Jesus was dead because He has to be. There is no room for "only mostly dead"

Quote: FrGamble

If you take away our computers and such we would be completely helpless to build anything remotely close to the cathedrals of the middle ages, that goes without saying.

And if in the middle ages you'd taken away mallets, saw and chisels, they'd been just as helpless.

I admit it: Human being are tool users, and totally dependent on their tools.

Quote:

However, I do think that much of skills seen in the masonry, stone work, and art is lost today.

Masonry is alive and well, just not as much in demand. Art, well, what passes for art in some circles is shameful. But there's plenty of good quality art still being produced. Google the Cordair Gallery.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Ok, I've been away from DT for a while, and found this discussion too large to catch up with in all details. (disclaimer). Someone else may have already taken this position in the discussion, but I didn't see it skimming the thread.

In light of what we now know about the body, its capabilities, and its healing resources, it seems entirely plausible that Jesus was crucified, wounded in the abdomen, died by all indications of that time, was placed in the tomb, and yet lived and walked the earth again. Crucifixion places unnatural pressure on the diaphragm and lungs, and he could have near-suffocated or become unconscious, even comatose, been body-dead by their medical standards, and yet recovered and woken in the tomb. He would have had all the stigmata to prove the event, healed or not.

The problem becomes the nature of His wounds. Remember the Roman soldiers came by because it was close to Passover and they wanted the bodies dead and removed from the cross. Romans were pretty good at knowing when someone was dead, and since in particular it was in their interest to make sure Jesus was dead, they would have made sure. Hence stabbing His side with a lance where blood and water flowed out. This medically happens after someone has been dead fro some time.

Then they lay Him in a tomb and roll a large stone across the entrance. Then on the request of the Jewish authorities the Romans station guards at the tomb to make sure nobody comes in or out. Finally, even if he heals from the whippings, beating, crown of thorns, crucifixion, and gaping wound in His side and He manages to roll the stone back, sneak past the guards and finds the disciples hiding in the upper room and gets past their locked doors - imagine if you will the scene. A half or mostly dead man stumbles into the room to say look I'm resurrected! This would be demoralizing not motivating.

What really happens is Jesus appears to the disciples as truly Resurrected and glorified and they are so overjoyed, inspired, and motivated by what they now know is undeniable proof that Jesus is God and has triumphed over sin and death that they go out and transform the world. Persecution and torture be damned they have a true message of the greatest news ever! It is from the Resurrected fully alive Jesus, not a mortally wounded dying man, that caused Christianity to spread like wildfire and impact the world in a way that nothing before or since ever could.

There is no getting around it, either the Resurrection was a true miracle or it didn't happen. History shows clearly it happened, it was the greatest of miracles and one that we can all share in.

Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I've always wondered why so many events in the bible took exactly 40 days and 40 nights.

You might have an answer to this one too. If Jesus was crucified on a Friday and, allegedly, rose on a Sunday, then he would have spent two nights in the tomb, Friday and Saturday night. Then why does it say he spent "three days and three nights" in the tomb. I can dig up the verse upon request.

The ancient Jews counted as a whole day any part of a day before the sunset, so three days could be as little as twenty-four hours plus a few seconds on either side, if they had a wristwatch of course. Crucified on Friday around 3pm (1 day), In the tomb Saturday (2nd day), and Risen on Sunday (3rd day).

Quote: FrGamble

It is from the Resurrected fully alive Jesus, not a mortally wounded dying man,

You should inform your brethren of this. They insist on keeping the dying, bleeding, gory Jesus depicted in their churches. Perhaps they don't know which Jesus is the right one?

Quote: Wizard

Then why does it say he spent "three days and three nights" in the tomb. I can dig up the verse upon request.

He was actually in the ancient version
of a Motel 6, which used caves as
rooms. They charged him for an extra
night because he missed the checkout
time. He was dead.

Quote: FrGamble

either the Resurrection was a true miracle or it didn't happen. .

The other explanations are far more
likely and plausible, than the one
where he was stone cold dead for
3 days and god raised him. That's
the left field, way out there theory.

But here's the rub. The early Church
desperately needed this 'miracle',
just as it desperately needs it today.
So it's the story it went with, and still
puts out there. Rising from the dead
after being pronounced dead is not
all that uncommon, so it's not the
miracle it once was. Several times
a year you read about people waking
up at their own funerals in countries
that don't embalm. Nobody ever says
god did it to them, only Jesus gets
those honors.

I don't think so..

Again that's because Resurrection is different than just waking up from a coma. Remember that along with Jesus the Church was dead too. The disciples were hiding, they were done. They were planning to go back to their former ways of life after following what looked like at the time was another false Messiah. They didn't desperately need this miracle, which is more of a reason that when it came they couldn't go back to the way things used to be. In fact it turns out that because of the real Resurrection of Jesus nothing ever again could go back to the way it used to be.