Was Jesus God?

Quote: petroglyph

You are making to big of a deal about sex. It is a natural act and none of us got here without it. But the church isn't the controller. Doesn't the bible say that Jesus would rather have a man lay with a prostitute than cast his seed on the ground"?

No it does not.

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You know whats worse then having to sell yourself?...Being rendered irrelevant. A slave although they know they are owned, they know they matter. When a woman is ostracized from the church for divorcing a brutal husband, she realizes where the church's priorities lie.

The church can also abuse a poor woman who left her abusive husband [who the church still defends] because they realize a poor woman doesn't have any money and is powerless. It appears that the church's priorities lay along economic lines, maybe it's a coincidence? Is that what you think Jesus wants?

This is all false. The Church does NOT defend abuse in any form or require women in such awful situations to stay with their husbands. I have lost track of how many times I have begged women to protect themselves and their children by separating and legally protecting themselves. The Church views marriage as a covenant of love between two equal people, a man and a woman. It is meant to be a help and a blessing to them and to the upraising of children, when it is a curse it is not as the Church sees a marriage and the woman has every right to do anything she can to be safe, healthy, and respected. The Church stands unflinchingly beside her. The Church even offers an annulment as a way to say that the marriage was never as God envisioned it in the first place and allows her total freedom from that precious relationship. Finally as you may know divorce is a civil legal matter and the Church does not view it as a sin or in any way against the man or woman who are still welcome to Holy Communion and everything else as long as they haven't remarried without the healing grace of an annulment.

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The church keeps preaching submission, how is that equal?

The Church teaches submission of both the man and woman, Scripture is extremely clear on this. Everyone always points to the verse about women be submissive to your husband, but the next verse says the same thing for men. It says love your wives as Christ loves His Church. Translation, husbands be willing to die for your bride and love her as you love your own body. I hope this clears this very common and frustrating misconception up!

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How many beatings does a wife have to endure before the church will approve of a divorce?

Absolutely NONE! The Church immediately approves of a separation and legal protection for the woman and any children.

Quote: FrGamble

Again I just can't believe the misinformation pouring out from you! They are good enough to be ordained! A woman is the greatest human person ever to live. .

And yet the Vatican says it's as big a sin
an molesting a child for a woman to be
ordained. You love to engage is double
speak. If you go and look, even some
recent popes have said women got the
short end of the deal throughout the
Church's history, and continue to get
it.

And quit pretending women are forced
to do porn. They do it willingly and are
paid well for it. Looking at a naked woman
having sex is no more evil than eating
dinner or petting your dog. Unless your
a Catholic, that is, who have always been
obsessed with sex.

Quote: Evenbob

And yet the Vatican says it's as big a sin
an molesting a child for a woman to be
ordained.

The Vatican does not say this. Where does it say this? You are making this stuff up, just stop it.

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If you go and look, even some
recent popes have said women got the
short end of the deal throughout the
Church's history, and continue to get
it.

Surely this is the case and yes it continues even in the Church, but not in anyway as bad as it does in our world all around. Look at Islam, Hinduism, and worse of all look at secularism and liberalism and what it is doing to women. We need to seriously examine ourselves, all of us and work towards true equality and freedom for women.

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And quit pretending women are forced
to do porn. They do it willingly and are
paid well for it.

They are abused and taken advantage of and you know it.

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Looking at a naked woman
having sex is no more evil than eating
dinner or petting your dog. Unless your
a Catholic, that is, who have always been
obsessed with sex.

It has nothing to do with sex and it is nothing short than objectivizing a human person for your own enjoyment. The fact you would dare equate that to petting a dog disgusts me.

Quote: FrGamble

No it does not.

I stand corrected.

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...The Church does NOT defend abuse in any form or require women in such awful situations to stay with their husbands...

That is re-arranging the words to fit carefully, imo. Of course they don't jump up and down defending abuse. The church has a fine aptitude for not seeing abuse, or ignoring it.

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The Church even offers an annulment

If you consider the attendees as property, that works fine.

Where I wrote "the church still defends", I meant in a personal case, the church defends the husbands rights and authority's knowing full well of his repeated abuse, not that the church recommends or defends abuse,... spin.

Regardless of the stated or written opinions of church's, in practice the woman is shunned by the fellowship, over and over, including the church leaders. Of course you have to take that position in public. Not the same down on the street.

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Absolutely NONE! The Church immediately approves of a separation and legal protection for the woman and any children.

Does your church preach this, or make known that this is their position, or are women often abused and left guessing? How do the women find out about the church approving of separation?

Quote: petroglyph

Where I wrote "the church still defends", I meant in a personal case, the church defends the husbands rights and authority's knowing full well of his repeated abuse, not that the church recommends or defends abuse,... spin.

I'm not quite clear as to what you are saying here. If there is knowledge of the husbands abuse I can assure you that the husband is not supported in any way. He still has legal rights and rights in cannon law but they don't supersede or in any way are greater than the wife's.

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Regardless of the stated or written opinions of church's, in practice the woman is shunned by the fellowship, over and over, including the church leaders. Of course you have to take that position in public. Not the same down on the street.

This has never ever been my experience. If anything the Church does all that it can to welcome and care for the woman and if there are children. Catholic Charities has many homes where women in abusive situations can receive free housing and counseling and legal help to get out of unhealthy relationships.

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Does your church preach this, or make known that this is their position, or are women often abused and left guessing? How do the women find out about the church approving of separation?

It is preached. However, it is obvious from your comments that it needs to be more well known. May I suggest that instead of repeating untruths that someone must have told you that you help get the word out and let people know that the Church unquestionably approves of separation for wives who are in any way, physically, sexually, or emotionally abused.

Quote: FrGamble

Again I just can't believe the misinformation pouring out from you! They are good enough to be ordained! A woman is the greatest human person ever to live. It has nothing to do with if someone is good enough or not, it has to do with the theology of the priesthood as in the person of Christ and with the history of the Church following the example of none other than Jesus Christ Himself.

In other words, "women are good enough to be ordained, but not good enough to be ordained."

Which raises the question, does this concept require more or less effort at doublethink than the trinity?

BTW, your church may be advocating more for women to conform to its Christian ideology. This is not the same thing as advocating for women.

Quote: FrGamble

The Vatican does not say this. Where does it say this? You are making this stuff up, just stop it.
.

Again, I seem to know more about
your church than you do.

"Yet, many Vatican observers and critics were surprised to find in the list of “exceptionally serious crimes,” alongside procedures concerning sexual abuse, also the attempted ordination of women to the priesthood. In taking this step, the Vatican indicated that the latter is, like priestly pedophilia, a serious crime against faith and morals."

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2010/07/17/the-logic-of-vaticans-linking-sex-abuse-womens-ordination/1360

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/31/world/europe/31vatican.html?_r=0

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They are abused and taken advantage of and you know it.

They're PAID, they do it for the money.
In fact, much of the porn on the sites
now is done by the people themselves
and posted by them. They do it for fun.
The ones who get paid make a pretty
good living at it. They aren't any more
exploited than any other person in the
movies. In fact, the porn industry makes
far more than Hollywood does.

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it is nothing short than objectivizing a human person for your own enjoyment.

DUH! Of course that's what it's about.
That's why we watch and that's why
women do it. They want to be looked
at as sex objects by the men who watch.
What did you think, they want men to
ring them up to go out on dates? Some
women get off on turning men on with
their bodies, it's as old as time.

Quote: FrGamble

Is there anyone else speaking out so strongly against pornography, the pill and other harmful contraceptives, abortion, sex slavery, rights of children to have a mom and dad when possible, and the harmful body issue problems society causes for young women?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Women%27s_rights_organizations
132 organizations on that list. The Catholic church is not one of them.
Most of them I'm pretty sure disagree with many of the positions you just listed, too, and in fact see your positions as against women's rights.

I'm sure you justify it by saying that they just don't know what is good for them, it is for their own good, etc. Right there you are putting your views of how you think society shoild be ahead of the rights of women.

Organizations fighting pornography - you can google that
https://www.internetsafetyproject.org/wiki/anti-pornography-organizations
The Catholic church isn't listed there, either. I looked at several sites.

So yes, I think there are many organizations out there who are speaking out for women's rights and against pornography, and are being recognized for it MORE than the Catholic church is.

I learned something new:

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The pill became very popular and had a major impact on society and culture. It contributed to a sharp increase in college attendance and graduation rates for women.

That is from this page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control_movement_in_the_United_States and cites a Time Magazine article for its source.