Pope Francis
March 30th, 2018 at 11:14:52 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
So why isn't the Vatican stating unequivocally that the pope never said it? They're dancing around it, just like you are. If he didn't say it, have him come out and make a public statement about hell. Never gonna happen because he DID say it. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
March 30th, 2018 at 11:40:54 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I will wager anything at all that he did not say it. You name the amount of money or whatever you would like me to do and I will do it. However, when it is shown that the Pope did not say that there is no he'll then you have to read just one short book of my choosing. Anything you want vs. Reading a book all on the line if Pope Francis said there is no hell. Is it a bet? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
March 30th, 2018 at 1:08:19 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Good grief. You're willing to believe whole heartedly the gospel stories that were told hundreds of times before being written down, yet you dismiss out of hand the word of somebody who heard it first hand, right from the horses mouth. You are a very fickle person. If he never said it, the Vatican will deny it. Till then, he said it. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
March 30th, 2018 at 1:27:58 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Look, I am very glad you trust so much in oral tradition and the personal testimony of others. I agree with you that it is a powerful way to communicate truth. I have no problem with that. What you need to take into consideration is the content of the message. As you know there were some made up very late Gospels that had Jesus killing little kids and other strange stuff and they were not taken as true because of their content. Look at the content and you can see it just doesn't fit. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
March 30th, 2018 at 2:14:29 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
The content of the Vatican's message is, yeah, he said it, he said there is no hell, just not in the exact words that were reported. You can't read it any other way. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
March 30th, 2018 at 6:29:19 PM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | What is continuing to happen here is people on all sides are believing only what they want to believe, disbelieving what they want to disbelieve, based on what they WANT the truth to be. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
March 30th, 2018 at 6:30:37 PM permalink | |
Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
Yeah, this sums up what I said nicely. Oral tradition is just fine, as long as it says what you want it to say. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
March 30th, 2018 at 6:36:06 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Good summary. This is why we need objective ways to arrive at certain truths so that our beliefs have checks and balances to them. Logic, science, history, all have a part to play. If over 2000 years of consistent teaching about something is clear through history than perhaps the rememberences of one 93 year old atheist might not be enough to base your belief on. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
March 30th, 2018 at 6:55:39 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
You really need to read more than just the titles of Bart Ehrman's books. You would learn so many really important facts about your religion. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
March 30th, 2018 at 8:08:51 PM permalink | |
kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4525 |
Sounds like the Pope and Trump elicit the same response in their supporters. "but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin |