Confessional

Quote: Evenbob

You'll have to explain that to me, I don't
see it.

Can you explain to me in scientific terms how a soul, for lack of a better term, can jump from one body to another? I certainly can't see any worldly explanation other than a higher power controlling it.

Quote: Wizard

Can you explain to me in scientific terms how a soul, for lack of a better term, can jump from one body to another?

Can you explain how thousands of scientifically
vetted kids have verifiable memories of being
somebody else before they were born? No,
they aren't lying, no, somebody didn't feed them
the info. That's what 'vetted' means, they were
investigated down every possible avenue for
how they could have such knowledge. The
scientists came to no conclusions, they never say
it's reincarnation. If pinned down they might say
it's evidence that points that way. You want me
to tell you how the memories, the soul, of one
person, was reborn into a new body? And if I
can't do that, just throw everything out the window?

That's the same as an Indian 400 years ago planting
corn. He knows that when he plants the kernel, corn
will come up there. He has no idea how it works, he
only has evidence that it does. Should he quit doing
it until he understands how it works? Why would he
do that.

Quote: Wizard

Can you explain to me in scientific terms how a soul, for lack of a better term, can jump from one body to another? I certainly can't see any worldly explanation other than a higher power controlling it.

Wishful thinking.

Oh, wait...

Quote: petroglyph

I have heard old bitties more than once talking to each other, they say "how could he leave her after 20 years??? He is awful, etc. etc. Every time I ask myself, how could he have possibly stayed so long?

I have heard women say "after the kids were out of high school, I got 'rid of an oaf'". Women put in the twenty years also. And instead of basement tinkering, they have spas and lunches and scrapbooks.

I think it is a matter of expectations and a matter of respect. A man who marries "blond hair, blue eyes and big breasts" in his high school class may later be disappointed that he wants to discuss philosophy and she wants to gossip about the neighbors. Well, she didn't discuss philosophy in high school, she gossiped; so what did he expect?

I think that is why the best marriages are between "best friends who happen to be of the opposite sex". Same personalities and same interests. Oh, he may race automobiles while she races airplanes, they don't have to be totally identical, but basic personality traits have to be the same. One person who plays team sports probably won't like someone who is a lone athlete.

Partners still need personal space and freedom. Some spouses agree to what is viewed as scandalous sexual relationships, but the key word is agree. In the Edwardian Era the emphasis was on appearances, in later times the emphasis seems to focus more on the practical and the enjoyment of the parties. Women may take lovers prior to marriage but some simply take studs instead and don't want any sort of "relationship", just "relations" and then beat it. Some don't change much after the marriage, they just confine the paternity to the husband, not the activity. Many women simply acknowledge that 'men often stray'...so they have prior arrangements about such things so that the 'straying' does not end the marriage.

Quote: Evenbob

You can't even show evidence of a gods existence, let alone that he's offended by anything we do.
That we're so self important, so narcissistic, that we have to invent a god so we can be the apple of his eye.

As God said:
"When I see some quarterback from Dipshit University point to me and say something about the goal, I am angry.
I do not guide the ball between the goal posts nor do I cause it to miss its intended path. I never interfere in order
to favor one team or another although I do rarely affect the results in order to move the line in Vegas."

Quote: Evenbob

Ever spend much time around Christians?
They really think god is sitting in heaven
worrying about them 24/7.

Yes. And no that is not true. You make a huge mistake in your conception of God. Like He is an old man sitting by the phone only able to think about or worry about one human being at a time. Do you have no conception of what omnipresent and all-knowing mean? Does it burden somehow a timeless all powerful spiritual being to love us?

Quote:

They believe that to god, they are the most
important thing in the universe.

Have you taken a look around recently? Just using your common sense doesn't it look like we pretty important in the universe. As far as we have been able to tell we are unique in all of God's creation. We are pretty special, each and everyone of us. By the way that is yet another problem with your thinking. As a Christian we have to see every single human being from the moment of conception till their death as possessing inestimable dignity and worth. All of us are children of God made in His image and likeness. This is another reason why you saying our faith is narcisstic doesn't hold any water.

Quote:

You don't
think that about anybody else, you don't think
you're powerful enough to offend your barber
or the traffic cop.

Wait you don't think I can offend my barber? I know traffic cops and they are very easily offended.

Quote:

But to what you believe is the
creator of the universe, you think you can offend
him all day long. You have that much power.

Power? What in the world are you talking about? God is offended? No, more like hurt because He loves us so much. It has not much to do with me, but everything to do with Him. God loves you and the people who love you the most in this world feel deeply your pain, suffering, and sins.

Quote: Evenbob

That's the same as an Indian 400 years ago planting
corn. He knows that when he plants the kernel, corn
will come up there. He has no idea how it works, he
only has evidence that it does. Should he quit doing
it until he understands how it works? Why would he
do that.

Can I just say this is music to my ears.

Quote: FrGamble

Yes. And no that is not true. You make a huge mistake in your conception of God.

God doesn't exist, my conception is just as
valid as yours. Dress Santa any way you like
he really won't care.

Quote:

Just using your common sense doesn't it look like we pretty important in the universe.

I saved a spider today. He's every bit as important
to the universe as I am. Your narcissism is showing
again, Mr Importance.

Quote:

Power? What in the world are you talking about? God is offended?

sin-a transgression against divine law

"Sin is the breaking of God's law. If God says, "Do not lie" and you lie, then you have broken His law and sinned. When you sin, you offend God because it is His law that you have broken."

Why does everybody but you in your religion
seem to know this.

Quote: Evenbob

I saved a spider today. He's every bit as important
to the universe as I am. Your narcissism is showing
again, Mr Importance.

Guilty. If you think that because I think a human being is more important than a spider than I am a narcissist then I guess you are right. Aren't you and every thinking human person then a narcissist?

Quote:

sin-a transgression against divine law

"Sin is the breaking of God's law. If God says, "Do not lie" and you lie, then you have broken His law and sinned. When you sin, you offend God because it is His law that you have broken."

Why does everybody but you in your religion
seem to know this.

So your objection to the concept of sin is because you cannot see it in any other sense then a specific theological one? You of course realize in your own atheist way that is wrong to lie and when you break this moral norm you have made a mistake, right? If we are talking in a strictly theological sense than of course God or really anyone that loves you is offended or hurt by your transgressions. But if we are talking about in a strictly secular sense the same conception exists. Everyone with a brain understands the notion of offending someone or hurting them because of our mistakes. Why do you not acknowledge this?

Quote: FrGamble

Guilty. If you think that because I think a human being is more important than a spider than I am a narcissist then I guess you are right.

The spider lives in a world that is just
as important to him as yours is to you.
And you better believe he thinks he's
your superior. So he's a narcissist too.
But you know you're one and he does
not, that put's all the responsibility on
you to act honorably in your relationship
with him.

Quote:

So your objection to the concept of sin is because you cannot see it

There's nothing to see, sin is an invention
to have power over people. You've offended
god, you will be horribly punished. If I offend
uncle George or aunt Sue, I can apologize or
not. It doesn't mean I'm going to hell for it.
You want to say if I can offend aunt Sue, I
can also offend god. Except the fly in that
ointment is there is no god to offend.