Confessional

Quote: FrGamble

Again let me try to be clear, the Big Bang theory does not prove the universe was created, it can only go back as far as there is something to observe. From that singularity logic, reason, and philosophy show that if this singularity is a non-necessary thing that does not hold its reason for being in itself then it must have been created.

Pretty sure logic, reason and philosophy have come to multiple possibilities in this area, not just one.

You might as well just say I agree with the point of view arrived at by some specific ideas and not the others.

Quote: rxwine

Pretty sure logic, reason and philosophy have come to multiple possibilities in this area, not just one.

I'm pretty sure that there is no other possibility other than a non-contingent thing must have been created.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm pretty sure that there is no other possibility other than a non-contingent thing must have been created.

I'm pretty sure that you're aware of other
possibilities. You just like yours a lot. I
would hate being religious, it's such a
game. No facts to hang your hat on,
only theories and possibilities. You have
to constantly argue from no concrete
position at all. I would get weary of it.

Quote: Evenbob

Nope, Acesandeights was the first and I
don't think he's been back since.

FrG can be infuriatingly inconsistent on
some of his opinions. Nareed takes some
of this seriously and got momentarily
angry. More latitude should be given
in religion threads, now Nareed will
probably disappear again.

I think he meant Nareed's first on this side. We have had multiple members suspended here though not near as many as over there.

I vote against more latitude in religious threads. Assuming anyone cares.

Quote: AZDuffman

I vote against more latitude in religious threads. Assuming anyone cares.

I informally already give more latitude in religious threads, as well as politics, dice setting, betting systems, NTEC, and other controversial topics. However, Nareed's comment went way over the line, no matter the topic.

Very coincidentally, I was watching the movie Pawn Sacrifice last night. There was a scene where Bobby Fisher insulted his friend, a priest. Then the conversation went something like this:

Fisher: Do I go to hell if I insult a priest?
Priest: Depends on whether you believe in hell.

Is that true, Padre?

Many priests at times deserve an insult so I don't think you would go right to hell. However, whether you believe in hell of not is of no consequence regarding if you go there or not.

Maybe it is my "Catholic guilt" as Evenbob would say, but I do feel bad that Nareed crossed the line. I feel in my heart of hearts that I am innocent of what Nareed charged me with but I still feel bad. Oh well I do hope Nareed comes back guns blazing when the suspension is lifted.

Quote: Wizard

Priest: Depends on whether you believe in hell.

Does anyone actually believe in Hell? I mean things like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and Honesty is the Best Policy ... eventually we outgrow the brainwashing and adopt a more reasonable:
Do Unto Others Before They Do Unto You
Honesty is the Best Policy if you are likely to get caught

I understand the good Padre has an agenda: Primarily to stay in the good graces of a manipulative invasive cult that requires obedience but gives him great latitude in his dealings with others and offers him potentially more power with the cult although there is little practical chance of his becoming the Pope.

Nareed simply does the same thing as the good Padre... state his position and pound like hell on the table top.

There is "convincing evidence" only to those who already believe. After all, the quarter does appear under the pillow and so belief is reinforced. There is a clock so if some tells us there has to be a clock maker it seems logical, but the clock consists of rocks and water and volcanoes sort of do both of those. We only imagine it to be a clock, the food web is self designed its not "created by a web designer".

Perhaps some people still believe Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt but that is only because they choose an option that is comfortable and rewaring to them. From the inside, a cult is a cocoon. The parishoners get sore knees and empty wallets, the priest get 'voluntary donations' and power. The parisoners get to continue to believe in the tooth fairy or Hell and Heaven and stuff like that, every now and then an alter boy is molested, every now and then someone takes money out of the collection plate as it is being passed. Yet, overall teh cult functions because of the secondary gains involved.

Quote: Fleastiff

eventually we outgrow the brainwashing and adopt a more reasonable:
Do Unto Others Before They Do Unto You
Honesty is the Best Policy if you are likely to get caught

These bits of advice you mention are better examples of brainwashing or rather just a lazy attitude of giving up. It is harder to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and it takes extraordinary courage and discipline to "Be honest always." So if we are being honest you have chosen the comfortable cocoon that you find rewarding to you and you alone. It is selfish and destructive to society to think the way you do. The things I believe and Christ taught are not easy and for that very reason you can be sure they are not brainwashing. I often have to fight against worldly or emotional passions to do what I know is right. You seem to have given up even trying and without even really noticing it you have fallen for exactly what the media and the consumer world we live in wants you to do.

I do have an agenda, but it is not the Church's. I've mentioned before I don't think my bishop or anyone I know is lurking here on DT. My agenda is the truth and pursing it. You have an agenda too, but seem oblivious to the fact that you have sucked down hook, line, and sinker a false truth that your happiness will be found in doing nothing but looking out for you. I pray you break free from this stifling cocoon of the cult of the world and open your eyes to discover truth and in the process real happiness now and eternally.

Quote: FrGamble

and in the process real happiness now and eternally.

We live in the eternal moment, if you're
happy now, that's all you need. Moment
to eternal moment.

Quote: FrGamble

It is selfish and destructive to society to think the way you do.

Well, I don't believe that uou meant 'think' I'm sure you meant 'act'.
The problem is that just about everyone adopts the 'look out for number one' stance while giving lip service to 'helping others'. People go to church to be seen. Its a role playing game. I'd be happy to hand out life vests aboard a sinking ship, but the first vest is mine. If you want to stay behind and prattle about souls and heaven, thats fine but it would be better if gave impromptu swimming lessons. Either way, most people will be trying to save themselves by seeking life vests and life boats, not by reading about events that supposdedly took place 2k years ago.