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February 16th, 2018 at 2:54:14 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18210
Quote: SOOPOO
Not relevant how many men would sleep with a man surigically altered to look like a woman.

We are a nation of laws. If the law allows someone to change their gender via surgery, then so be it. If you don't like the law, then convince a majority of constituents to vote in politicians who will overturn it.
But AZ, as Face pointed out, should not be forced to use a pronoun he feels is wrong.

I now frequently work on transgender people. We will always refer to them with the pronoun they choose. I believe that I could opt to not be involved in their care, but cannot choose to use a pronoun that they did not choose. I strongly believe in the doctrine of individual determination and informed consent. Although to me it seems wrong to disfigure normal human anatomy, I will always respect the patient's autonomy and right to make such a decision.


It is relevant to my point. It shows that surgery and pills, and they will take loads of pills for life from what I have read, does not make a man a woman. If a PC guy wants to call such a male "she" that is one thing. It is a level of politeness one could say. But if few men would consider such a person a mate, that shows that said men do not really accept that we now have a "woman."

As to medical, I have to wonder how a elective sex change doe not violate "do no harm." Seems like it does a lot of harm, though I do not get to judge that. But I do get to say I see it as a huge problem. I just see it, along with calling people "xe" just more signs of societal collapse.
The President is a fink.
February 16th, 2018 at 7:05:42 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4175
Quote: Dalex64
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2013/2/18/1188022/-Accurately-Comparing-Death-Rates-from-Motor-Vehicle-and-Firearm-Use

From 2013
Car homicides 300
Car suicides 20000
Gun homicides 11000
Gun suicides 20000


Car suicides are probably MUCH higher. It is not an easy label to apply, and the family will fight such a designation, as it carries a stigma and also may affect life insurance.
February 16th, 2018 at 7:18:07 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11791
Quote: SOOPOO
It is not an easy label to apply, and the family will fight such a designation, as it carries a stigma and also may affect life insurance.


What is the terrible stigma?
I don't get this stigma thing
Somebody commits suicide, it is what it is.
Depression is a terrible problem. There needs to be more open discussion about this.
My father committed suicide.
I am very open and honest about it and it did not effect the life insurance policy. My mother got the money
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
February 16th, 2018 at 8:05:17 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4515
Quote: terapined
What is the terrible stigma?
I don't get this stigma thing
Somebody commits suicide, it is what it is.
Depression is a terrible problem. There needs to be more open discussion about this.
My father committed suicide.
I am very open and honest about it and it did not effect the life insurance policy. My mother got the money


Most life insurance policies have a wait period after purchase before they cover suicide. It is usually relatively short only 2 or 3 years but stops you from buying a policy and committing suicide right away.

The difference between losing a parent to suicide as compared to losing one of your children (even if grown) is huge. Parents are often riddled with guilt any time they lose a child. They spend the rest of their lives wondering how they could have prevented the death. Suicide is probably the worst for their guilt.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
February 16th, 2018 at 8:34:25 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18762
Quote: AZDuffman
It is relevant to my point. It shows that surgery and pills, and they will take loads of pills for life from what I have read, does not make a man a woman. If a PC guy wants to call such a male "she" that is one thing. It is a level of politeness one could say. But if few men would consider such a person a mate, that shows that said men do not really accept that we now have a "woman."


Why do you think it's anything different than say guys who prefer really fat women. There was even a convention of some sort at Sam's Town in Vegas when I lived there. I was in the casino and it just seemed there were an unusual number of very heavy women. Not just slightly overweight, but on the very obese side.

There are men interested in women's feet. I doubt if they look for ugly toe claw foot women to marry if they don't have to.

And even if these are niche groups, that don't matter so much to other men, so what? There may not be a lot of call for different things, but they are still people out there looking for such things.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
February 16th, 2018 at 9:09:39 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18210
Quote: rxwine
Why do you think it's anything different than say guys who prefer really fat women.


Ask around and see. If I ran any kind of media and had the money I would run the poll.
The President is a fink.
February 16th, 2018 at 9:20:37 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18762
It kind of reminds me of the Wizard's license plate collection. Even though I known other people to save them, I can count one hand, one finger, of all the people I've ever known who is a serious collector.

In cases where something is uncommon it is often necessary to leave your own neighborhood to find someone.

But anyway, what is it you want to do? You can probably prove that quadraplegics almost never can find mates if they were single. Another so what. What are we trying to show?
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
February 16th, 2018 at 9:37:08 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
The terms 'male' and 'female' are situationally defined. A jailor does not care about preferences, only abilities. If the prisoner is dressed as a female, has large breasts and identifies as a female psychologically so what? If the prisoner has a penis, that prisoner is classified as male and goes to the men's jail.

Now in social situations its always different. Sensitivities come into play. Courtesy is a significant factor. Boxes on forms in a file cabinet may not mean as much as a pronoun used in a conversation. And you know a dealer who wants tokes will try to be very politically correct when on duty no matter what his actual opinions may be.
February 16th, 2018 at 9:38:31 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4175
Quote: terapined
What is the terrible stigma?
I don't get this stigma thing
Somebody commits suicide, it is what it is.
Depression is a terrible problem. There needs to be more open discussion about this.
My father committed suicide.
I am very open and honest about it and it did not effect the life insurance policy. My mother got the money


You are correct that there should not be a stigma attached to it. But that is not the real world we live in.
Some life insurance policies never pay due to suicide, some only pay after the policy has been in effect for a certain number of years.
February 16th, 2018 at 9:54:47 AM permalink
JimRockford
Member since: Sep 18, 2015
Threads: 2
Posts: 971
I don't know about you but I would hate to use the proportion of the female population who want to f#*k me to determine if I'm male.
The mind hungers for that on which it feeds.