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| February 5th, 2022 at 8:01:35 AM permalink | |
| kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4530 |
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| February 5th, 2022 at 8:41:23 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5270 |
(I reformatted the quote, but did not change any of the text). Of course not, because Biden is not the head of a terrorism syndicate. To give a local example it would be like, if the Chief of Police can authorize a raid on a gang leader's house, why can't the gang leader raid the Police Chief's house? One is legal (and moral), and one is the opposite. This is the difference between the U.S. and ISIS, we go out of our way (and put ourselves in massive danger) to try to non-lethally capture somebody using their family as a shield. ISIS does not do the same (they would just blow up the house). Heck, we attempted to capture Bin Laden in a massive risky move to avoid harming his family. Both circumstances would be far safer/easier (and cheaper) if we just blew up the compound. |
| February 5th, 2022 at 9:32:04 AM permalink | |
| kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4530 |
You mean like the hundreds of drone strikes where they did just blow somebody up? Maybe you are talking about the sniper missions where they take a head shot from distance. I have no problems with the ends justify the means but remember all sides feel the same way because after all they are right and the other side is wrong. Biden is as much a head of a terrorism syndicate as anyone other world leader. you just happen to agree with his definition of terrorism not the Moslem leaders definition. "but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin |
| February 5th, 2022 at 9:50:17 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5270 |
That is just false, terrorism is clearly defined, intent matters, and consensus matters. When every international organization declares ISIS terrorists, and the U.S. a sovereign country it matters. If Joe Biden had a magic wand he would not kill everyone in ISIS, he would make them live like Americans. If Quarashi had a magic wand, 98% of the world would be destroyed. Actually we don't even need to magic wand argument anymore, America has enough fire power to destroy the surface of the globe eight times over, and we hardly use it (and if we do it's extremely targeted). ISIS gets a weapon and uses it almost immediately, if ISIS had American levels of weapons, there would be no world. Intention matter, and we know American intentions and we know ISIS intentions. Drone strikes are a great example, we carefully calculate strikes to minimize damage. ISIS would just unload on the whole country and not think twice about it. |
| February 5th, 2022 at 10:55:38 AM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 217 Posts: 22946 | What is a legitimate target? That gets to the heart of the matter. Biden or a top general would be. Taking down the twin towers wouldn't be. But the pentagon would be. Crashing a civilian aircraft into the ground (flight 93) wouldn't be. There's of course other arguments. Hiroshima was mostly a civilian target hit to end the entire war. "Trumpsplain (def.) explaining absolute nonsense said by TRUMP. |
| February 5th, 2022 at 11:09:53 AM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 217 Posts: 22946 | In my opinion though, hijacking 4 passenger loaded planes to use as flying bombs is a terrorist act regardless of the target. "Trumpsplain (def.) explaining absolute nonsense said by TRUMP. |
| February 5th, 2022 at 11:35:43 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5270 |
Those are three very different scenarios/events, one was during a formal war, the other two were out of the blue. |
| February 5th, 2022 at 12:04:53 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 217 Posts: 22946 |
Once you're into just the "war" argument you can also argue just and unjust wars or even actions. I think there is even more potential of legitimate disagreement. "Trumpsplain (def.) explaining absolute nonsense said by TRUMP. |
| February 5th, 2022 at 1:33:12 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 30 Posts: 5270 |
Of course, there can be a just war and unjust action (if you go by the Just War Theory, which I don't fully embrace, but its reasonable for a simple philosophy). But, by just about any (Western) philosophy hijacking civilian airlines and flying them into buildings (the building is irrelevant) is unjust, and this would assume there was actually a just war declared (which there was not) that the action was a part of. Hiroshima is trickier, because it was during a Just War, and though it was a civilian target, its goal was to end the war quicker (which would save lives on both sides). I have heard a lot of good arguments on both sides. But, my sympathy for WWII Japan is limited (by that I mean nonexistent), so I don't have a major issue with it even if you can prove there was a slightly quicker way to end the war. In any case bombing of cities was common (by all sides) during WWII, and most bombing missions were just as devastating if not more than Hiroshima, so the argument that it is worst because "it was from just one single bomb/aircraft", does not really add up for me. People seem to forget that WWII bombing of cities was the norm.... America just got the better bomb faster (If you think Japan or Germany would not have happily used it, if they got it first, you are just not in reality). People hyper focus on the two atomic bombings, but gloss over the routine bombings of cities that happened through the whole war and act like America was the only party involved that bombed a city. The U.S. was actually one of the only parties (on either side) that tried to get an agreement to only bomb military targets (which both sides universally hated). Japan goes through a lot of propaganda (to this day) to look like a victim during WWII, when the reality is, they were probably worse than the Germans. People (especially Americans and Europeans) just know a lot less of what they did (for well-planned reasons). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II |
| February 5th, 2022 at 2:01:33 PM permalink | |
| missedhervee Member since: Apr 23, 2021 Threads: 160 Posts: 5504 | The sad thing about war is that almost all of the people killed are the "wrong" people. By that I mean they are not the ones whose policies and decisions led to war; they're just dragged into it by their government either by patriotism or conscription. The politicians are the true villains and the ones who should be targeted and destroyed, not the general populace. |