Spanish Word of the Day

Quote: Nareed

Because there is no action performed by, or on, any thing. In English you're asking why it shouldn't be "The day tortillas made themselves fall down like snow."

I'm not using se in a reflexive sense. It can also be used to mean nobody in particular, for example Se habla español or in the sense I just explained.

Quote: Wizard

It can also be used to mean nobody in particular, for example Se habla español or in the sense I just explained.

That means people inside speak Spanish. Not that Spanish speaks itself.

Quote: Nareed

That means people inside speak Spanish. Not that Spanish speaks itself.

I agree. So, how would you translate Se me cayó la pluma?

Quote: Wizard

I agree. So, how would you translate Se me cayó la pluma?

The pen dropped off my hand.

Look, no matter how much you want them to be the same, languages are different from each other. Not just in vocabulary, but in how theya re spoken and writen.

Now, any idea that can be expressed in one language can be expressed in any other language (with few exceptions concerning vocabulary deficiencies). But it can't just be literally translated. Sometimes usage is too different to allow for an exact, natural translation. That is, "se me cayo la pluma" is best translated to English as "I dropped the pen," even if it's not exact. If you insist in exactness, then it's what I said above.

Quote: Nareed

The pen dropped off my hand.

I can live with that. However, why didn't you translate it as "the pen dropped itself off of my hand"? This would be consistent of your translation of:

El día de que se nevaron tortillas. = The day tortillas made themselves fall down like snow.

Also, where is the "fall down" in my Spanish?

Quote: Wizard

I can live with that. However, why didn't you translate it as "the pen dropped itself off of my hand"? This would be consistent of your translation of:

El día de que se nevaron tortillas. = The day tortillas made themselves fall down like snow.

That's as consistent as things get keeping in mind the meaning you are trying to convey. "the pen dropped" implies the pen did the action. I can't see another way to imply the tortillas performed an action other than the phrase I used.

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Also, where is the "fall down" in my Spanish?

To quote the indefatigable Victor Hugo: "?"

Quote: Wizard

El día de que se nevaron tortillas. = The day tortillas made themselves fall down like snow.

I thought the title published in the book was El dia que nevaron tortillas without the preposition "de".

I think Nareed was trying to say the preposition "se" means that the tortillas did some action. The only action she could think of was "falling down". But you didn't literally use a verb that means "falling down".

Traditionally the weather "it" is considered a dummy pronoun. The word "it" fills a spot in the sentence where the subject belongs. If the you look at the sentences "the rose is red" and the sentence "it is red", the pronoun "it" is not a dummy word because it replaced a noun. But in the sentence "it is snowing", there is no possible noun that you can use instead of "it".

Spanish or the other Romance languages do not require a dummy pronoun.

Quote: Pacomartin

I thought the title published in the book was El dia que nevaron tortillas without the preposition "de".

You're right, no de.

Hayes used both El día que nevó tortillas and El día que nevaron tortillas

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I think Nareed was trying to say the preposition "se" means that the tortillas did some action. The only action she could think of was "falling down". But you didn't literally use a verb that means "falling down".

The tortillas snowed. To snow implies they fell down from the sky.

Quote:

Traditionally the weather "it" is considered a dummy pronoun. The word "it" fills a spot in the sentence where the subject belongs. If the you look at the sentences "the rose is red" and the sentence "it is red", the pronoun "it" is not a dummy word because it replaced a noun. But in the sentence "it is snowing", there is no possible noun that you can use instead of "it".

It seems to me in Spanish the "it" is often omitted because it is implied. For example, I think if you wanted to say "It is snowing." you would say Está Nevando. No need to put something for "it" because it is implied, as you seem to be saying. My sentence doesn't have an it because either it is implied or the day did the snowing. I simply added the se to allow for the tortillas to be the subject. Again, it isn't meant to be reflexive. I'm not saying I"m right, but don't see why I'm wrong. I have been trying to understand the grammar of Hayes' title for over a year now, and I'm still beating my head against the wall.

Quote: Wizard

It seems to me in Spanish the "it" is often omitted because it is implied.

There's no "it" in Spanish.

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For example, I think if you wanted to say "It is snowing." you would say Está Nevando. No need to put something for "it" because it is implied, as you seem to be saying.

I think that particular use of "it" is one more meaningless term English picked up from Celtic languages. The Spanish "esta lloviendo" should translate literally into English as "is raining." Think about it, what object is meant by "it" in the phrase "it's raining"? I don't know other languages well enough to say, but I'm willing to bet few, if any, use "it" in that manner.

BTW, there is a word in Spanish to indicate hail is falling, "granizando." I don't believe there's a comparable word in English.

Quote: Nareed

BTW, there is a word in Spanish to indicate hail is falling, "granizando." I don't believe there's a comparable word in English.

I thought hail could be a noun or verb. So, I would say "It's hailing." Nobody has ever corrected be, but it hails so seldom that how often do you get the chance to say it?