Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Why they did it was probably because of the brainwashing and forced command of the Atheistic government.

Will you claim the Crusades were the result of brainwashing by an atheistic pope?

I didn't think so.

At first glance it makes sense that followers of a certain religion would follow its principles. Experience tells you this is rarely the case, even for devout practitioners (or perhaps especially for devout practitioners). Experience also tells you that even when this is the case, exceptions, exemptions and loopholes can always be found, justified or rationalized.

Christians re no more nor less moral than anyone else. This insistence that they are, by virtue of their faith, is as annoying as it is false.

Quote: FrGamble

No, I was more referring to the bloodiest century in the history of the world.

Blame that on technology and ever more
people on the planet. For intent, it wasn't
any worse than any other century.

Numbers seem to mean a lot to you. How
many Christians there are, how many people
were killed in war in the last century. Yet
other numbers, like the number of Xtions
in prison compared to godless evil atheists,
those numbers you just ignore.

Quote: Nareed

Will you claim the Crusades were the result of brainwashing by an atheistic pope?

No I'd claim that they arose from a desire to protect Christians being driven from their homes and persecuted as well as the protection of the Holy Land.

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Experience also tells you that even when this is the case, exceptions, exemptions and loopholes can always be found, justified or rationalized.

Such is the nature of Original Sin and the inherent pride and selfishness we all struggle with. We are so good at making ourselves the source and end all of our morality.

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Christians re no more nor less moral than anyone else. This insistence that they are, by virtue of their faith, is as annoying as it is false.

However, Christian morality is a help in living the moral life much more than nothing. The insistence that some are moral, by virtue of their unbelief, is as annoying as it is false.

Quote: FrGamble

No I'd claim that they arose from a desire to protect Christians being driven from their homes and persecuted as well as the protection of the Holy Land.

You do know shortly after the first calls from Rome to "free" the Holy land, lots of Jews living in Europe were attacked and killed.

Now, where in the New Testament is this Christian action justified? Please explain to me why this constitutes a virtuous and moral action. I would really love to know.

Quote: Evenbob

For intent, it wasn't
any worse than any other century.

You must not have meant to write that. Outside of atheism has there ever been in history the intent to exterminate an entire race of people? This last century saw the worst in humanity not just in science and technology used to kill but in the sickening intent behind it.

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Numbers seem to mean a lot to you.

I had to laugh at the guy who is always asking for evidence and proof, hard data, empirical truth (of course, as defined by you) now complaining about the use of numbers. Is that because your precious stat about the lack of atheists in foxholes, I mean prisons, doesn't compare to the number of people who died in war in the last century at the hands of atheists?

Quote: Nareed

You do know shortly after the first calls from Rome to "free" the Holy land, lots of Jews living in Europe were attacked and killed.

Now, where in the New Testament is this Christian action justified? Please explain to me why this constitutes a virtuous and moral action. I would really love to know.

Yes I do know this and there is absolutely no justification for it. It was an evil and immoral action. It was certainly not what was called for and abhorrent to Christianity.

Quote: FrGamble

Outside of atheism has there ever been in history the intent to exterminate an entire race of people?

Spain, with backing by your very own church, did a thorough job of ethnically cleansing itself from Jews and Muslims.

God himself exterminated every race of people, save those of whatever region Noah and his family came from.

Next.

Quote: Nareed

Spain, with backing by your very own church, did a thorough job of ethnically cleansing itself from Jews and Muslims.

Nope, the Inquisition only involved those who claimed to be Christians and part of the Church, especially those who were converts from Judaism or Islam. It was never an attempt to do anything in regards to Jews or Muslims.

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God himself exterminated every race of people, save those of whatever region Noah and his family came from.

That story, one present in many cultures, is not about exterminating any race or people other than trying to cleanse ourselves from sin and be granted a new beginning and fresh start. Any other poor readings of history or the Bible? Next.

Quote: FrGamble

Nope, the Inquisition only involved those who claimed to be Christians and part of the Church, especially those who were converts from Judaism or Islam. It was never an attempt to do anything in regards to Jews or Muslims.

So the expulsion of all Jews from Spain, or as many as they could catch, was what? A footnote to the Reconquista?

Some Jews managed to stay, by pretending to convert and hiding their religion from outsiders. Some of these made it to the Americas. Some of their descendants live in small towns here and there in Mexico and the US, and they still hide the fact they're Jewish.

That's how far the consequences of such actions went.

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That story, one present in many cultures, is not about exterminating any race or people other than trying to cleanse ourselves from sin and be granted a new beginning and fresh start.

I've a bridge I could be persuaded to sell.

It goes well with this tower a colleague of mine owns in Paris.

Quote: FrGamble

That story, one present in many cultures, is not about exterminating any race or people other than trying to cleanse ourselves from sin and be granted a new beginning and fresh start. Any other poor readings of history or the Bible? Next.

I forgot: In the Exodus myth, God causes terrible suffering to at least the people in the capital of Egypt, probably in all of Egypt, then heartlessly kills the first born sons of a lot of Egyptians.

Which sins were being eradicated?

But the principle of making innocent, helpless people suffer and die is well-established.

Then there's the whole Sodom and Gomorrah debacle. It's too simplistic to be taken seriously. Then Lot's wife gets punished for daring to disobey God. Not to mention the Tower of Babel embarrassment. Did God seriously think a bunch of primitives using mud brick could build a tower tall enough to reach heaven?