Original Sin?

Quote: aceofspades

Padre, my interpretation is that "God" made Adam in his image, then fashioned Eve from Adam's "side" or "rib". Does this not make it incestuous for Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply?
Of course, your argument will be that that portion of the Bible is selectively "mythical"

I'm not annoyed in fact I'm happy that you are listening and selectively understanding what I'm saying.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm not annoyed in fact I'm happy that you are listening and selectively understanding what I'm saying.

Padre, I am the one who is annoyed.

Selective listening would be a negative padre...it implies hearing only part of what is being said...
I am not sure how you could interpret my post as anything but a negative to your argument

Quote: Evenbob

All those words when all you need to
say is, to be happy you need high self
esteem. God has nothing do with any
it.

What grounds your self esteem without God? I can hear the atheist counselor now, "Well Jimmy you are a meaningless cosmic accident, really a conscious pile of dust that can somehow talk and think, but on the grand scheme of things you are no more important than a cockroach. The only logical thing for you to do with your short life on this fleeting planet is to desperately seek pleasure and to try and avoid any suffering at all costs - ultimately your accomplishments will come to nothing, you have no higher purpose, and will soon be lost forever in oblivion."
"Wow, thanks Dr. Ace I feel so much better about myself."

Quote: FrGamble

What grounds your self esteem without God? I can hear the atheist counselor now, "Well Jimmy you are a meaningless cosmic accident, really a conscious pile of dust that can somehow talk and think, but on the grand scheme of things you are no more important than a cockroach. The only logical thing for you to do with your short life on this fleeting planet is to desperately seek pleasure and to try and avoid any suffering at all costs - ultimately your accomplishments will come to nothing, you have no higher purpose, and will soon be lost forever in oblivion."
"Wow, thanks Dr. Ace I feel so much better about myself."

So if life is meaningless without God, then what is the meaning of life divined from God?
Were we made by God merely to worship him?
I will also accept the answer of "42"

I'm curious...I gave my exaggerated and biased view of what an atheist would tell Jimmy to boost his self-esteem. What do you think a priest or a strong theist would tell little Jimmy?

Quote: FrGamble

I'm curious...I gave my exaggerated and biased view of what an atheist would tell Jimmy to boost his self-esteem. What do you think a priest or a strong theist would tell little Jimmy?

Avoiding answering my question - are we know using the Socratic method?

Quote: FrGamble

What grounds your self esteem without God?

My self esteem comes from doing what I
think is right, not from god. So does yours,
you just take the long way around. And
a cockroach is every bit as important in
this universe as I am or you are. If you
could ask him, he's say he's the center
of the universe and he's be correct.

Quote: FrGamble

Brilliant point.

Thank you.

But you missed it completely.

The point is religious morality is no more objective than subjective morality, because it's based on arbitrary, subjective rules, formulated by people over the course of many years.

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Original sin only means our moral compass is broken, it is not destroyed.

Mine is neither.

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You are doing things right because we are all made in the image and likeness of God.

How do I reply to this without being mean and sarcastic?

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This is why we also do need to very highly value ourselves.

And yet the central moral purpose in Christianity is to sacrifice one's self.

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One of the radical teachings of Christ is to eventually see all people not just our spouses or children, even our enemies, as having the same dignity and worth in God's eyes and in our own as ourselves.

What would you have me recognize in monsters like Hitler, Stalin Mao, Pol Pot, and for good measure Nero?

Quote: Evenbob

My self esteem comes from doing what I
think is right, not from god. So does yours,
you just take the long way around. And
a cockroach is every bit as important in
this universe as I am or you are. If you
could ask him, he's say he's the center
of the universe and he's be correct.

I admit I say and believe some pretty crazy sounding stuff, but this has to take the cake.

Quote: FrGamble

I admit I say and believe some pretty crazy sounding stuff, but this has to take the cake.

Bob is right - everyone in life is looking out for #1 (no matter how much volunteer work you do, you MUST take care of #1 or you will not be around to help out anyone).