Original Sin?

Quote: stinkingliberal

Actually, "spontaneously generating" isn't how life came about on this planet. The chemical and electrical processes that create life are well understood, as are the conditions in which they have to operate for that to occur. In its simplest definition, life is a series of self-sustaining chemical and electrochemical reactions.

Where theology differs from science is that the former confuses the unusual with the miraculous.

It's not understood at all. You desperately want to believe it is but you are wrong. ("In its simplest definition, life is a series of self-sustaining chemical and lectrochemical reactions.") Wrong again. You can't just make stuff up without being called on it so how about just sticking with "real" facts.

Quote: FrGamble

I won't pretend to know much about quantam mechanics

Good call: "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics." Richard Feynman.

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[..]but we have had a pretty good idea of what or who had to create the universe since at least Aristotle.

Aristotle was a good philosopher but a rather terrible scientist. Would you take his theory of gravity over Newton's and Einstein's?

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However, how it began and why is not the purview of science. Philosophers have that coverd and have for quite some time.

I thought we'd settled this. Of course it's a question of science. Philosophy lacks the tools and knowledge to make such determinations.

Quote: Nareed

Aristotle was a good philosopher but a rather terrible scientist. Would you take his theory of gravity over Newton's and Einstein's?

Terrible is not the word I would have gone with. Wasn't it Newton that said we stand on the shoulders of giants. Surely Aristotle is one of those giants.

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I thought we'd settled this. Of course it's a question of science. Philosophy lacks the tools and knowledge to make such determinations.

It is settled. Science can only work with what they can observe and test. It is obvious that if you are trying to discover what existed before any material or contingent thing existed then you won't be able to observe it, much less test it. Science is blind and helpless in the spiritual realm. It is only philosophy and/or theology and maybe the fine arts that have the tools and knowledge to speak upon these things.

Quote: FrGamble

Terrible is not the word I would have gone with.

It's the word I'd have gone with. Wait. It's the word I went with!

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Wasn't it Newton that said we stand on the shoulders of giants. Surely Aristotle is one of those giants.

I don't think it was Newton.

Anyway, we owe a great deal to Aristotle as regards logic, and as regards a few other things. But as a scientist, few were worse. He was an idealist, following in his teacher's footsteps, when it came to the actual real world.

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Science can only work with what they can observe and test.

Last I checked, we could observe the Universe.

Tests may not be necessary. no question that experiments often yield results faster, but predictions work just as accurately.

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It is obvious that if you are trying to discover what existed before any material or contingent thing existed then you won't be able to observe it, much less test it. Science is blind and helpless in the spiritual realm. It is only philosophy and/or theology and maybe the fine arts that have the tools and knowledge to speak upon these things.

1) You sound like Descartes, I believe it was, who painted a very limited picture of what future scientific discoveries could possibly be.

2) Philosophy, theology, the arts, and for that matter fashion design, have the same access to observable data as science does. I fail to see what advantage they enjoy.

Quote: FrGamble

Science is blind and helpless in the spiritual realm.

That's because the 'spiritual realm' is
totally in your head. It doesn't exist
in the world. Amazing Randi was
offering a million for any evidence
it does and he had no takers.

Quote: pew

It's not understood at all. You desperately want to believe it is but you are wrong. ("In its simplest definition, life is a series of self-sustaining chemical and lectrochemical reactions.") Wrong again. You can't just make stuff up without being called on it so how about just sticking with "real" facts.

Well, I'm not going to argue with you about something that science has known for generations. I don't believe it because I want to believe it. I believe it because there's science behind it and evidence for it.

AS usual some people assign theological answers to still unknown causes.

Which question ever ended up as theological cause? Someone name one that was proven.

Science has either answered all as non- theological cause, or simply hasn't answered.

Science score 1 zillion
Theology - 0

If a cause ends up violating known physics, guess what? It will be accepted and then they will try to figure out why and how it fits in. Consider how long people had to accept the Sun even if they had no idea how it worked?

THEOLOGY ZERO.

Quote: rxwine

Science score 1 zillion
Theology - 0.

Most people are not spiritual but they
like to follow people who are. These
'spiritual' leaders are often off their
rocker, like Jesus. Were any of the
disciples of Jesus really all that spiritual?
They glommed onto the cracked guy
and followed him around, but that's
what certain people do. Look at Jim
Jones, he got hundreds to drink the
poison Kool Aid. There are always
people just as nutty as the nut they
follow around.

Quote: stinkingliberal

Well, I'm not going to argue with you about something that science has known for generations. I don't believe it because I want to believe it. I believe it because there's science behind it and evidence for it.

Thank you for admitting you can't argue it scientifically because the only proof you have is your existence.

Quote: pew

Thank you for admitting you can't argue it scientifically.

He's saying it's simply not worth it to
prove the earth is not flat yet again.
It would be a waste of time, you would
just throw you apron over your head
and run the other way with your hands
over your ears.