Original Sin?

Quote: rxwine

Or like chain lettersl.

Send this message to 10 people for good fortune, or suffer a calamity.

The Christian message might mean more
if it didn't have the 'or else' caveat attached
to it. Very poor salesmanship. How would
you like the used car lot guy to say 'You're
buying this or else.' You'd run away.

Quote: rxwine

I'm going to introduce you to Islam, if you don't believe it you are doomed. Same idea.

Already have been. You just completely miscategorized it though. Unless of course you mean they'll slit your throat if you don't believe. In that case you would be correct.

Quote: rxwine

FrGamble still hasn't answered whether one can be atheist after one's death? If he believes not, it only proves god could create convincing evidence, but hasn't.

Good question, I'm sorry I don't remember seeing it asked. Of course one cannot by an atheist in Heaven or in Hell for that matter. I do not doubt that could very easily make you believe or turn me into a chicken. He could stop time and cause the whole universe to disappear forever. The question I would ask is why do you think the evidence is not convincing? Where do you think the universe and all that exists comes from? How do you explain life and do you think it has a meaning? Do you not know of Jesus Christ? What would you find more convincing?

Quote: FrGamble

I am assuming "entity" can mean lots of things.

In the context of this discussion, it means a being capable of action.

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Okay this is getting a little crazy.

You started it :)

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To claim this you would have to claim that the universe has to exist, that there is no possibility for it not to exist, because it is the reason for existence within itself.

Not at all. I claim the universe has always existed and/or wasn't not created by a non-falsifiable outside force or power or entity.

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To claim this for a material thing brings all kinds of other complications but I think you can see that this is making the universe into God, a kind of pantheism.

I'm familiar with pantheism. And that's not what I'm saying. The universe isn't a god because it's not an entity and because there are no such things as gods.

Quote: Evenbob

Quote: FrGamble

This makes me really sad. God is NOT a football coach

Really? In my analogy he is. And it's
a good one.

It is a really, really awful one if you understand Christianity.

Quote: rxwine

FrGamble still hasn't answered whether one can be atheist after one's death? If he believes not, it only proves god could create convincing evidence, but hasn't.

What do you mean whether one can be atheist after one's death? I'm not getting your question. Do you mean if there is an after life will atheists' still be atheists'?

Quote: Nareed

Not at all. I claim the universe has always existed and/or wasn't not created by a non-falsifiable outside force or power or entity.

Then how do you square that the 2nd law of thermodynamics? If the universe has already existed forever then why is not everything inert gas with infinite space between atoms.

Actually, even more troubling if the universe has always existed than how do you explain history? Where does time begin and the first actions start? If the universe has always existed then there is there is nothing to ground my present existence. You can't just keep going back to successive moments of history for infinity. This is an infinite regress and it is a logical and practical improbability.

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I'm familiar with pantheism. And that's not what I'm saying. The universe isn't a god because it's not an entity and because there are no such things as gods.

Right the universe has just always existed without a cause and breaks all the physical and logical laws we know. Sure thing.

Quote: FrGamble

Good question, I'm sorry I don't remember seeing it asked. Of course one cannot by an atheist in Heaven or in Hell for that matter. I do not doubt that could very easily make you believe or turn me into a chicken. He could stop time and cause the whole universe to disappear forever. The question I would ask is why do you think the evidence is not convincing? Where do you think the universe and all that exists comes from? How do you explain life and do you think it has a meaning? Do you not know of Jesus Christ? What would you find more convincing?

at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in HEAVEN, and of those on earth, and of those UNDER the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Quote: FrGamble

Then how do you square that the 2nd law of thermodynamics? .

Every time you introduce a god as the cause of everything you also circumvent known properties of the Universe. Why give grief to Nareed when she suggests something different than more common physics?

Quote: FrGamble

Then how do you square that the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

I don't know everything (though I see how you could get that impression).

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If the universe has already existed forever then why is not everything inert gas with infinite space between atoms.

So if god has existed forever.... Well.