Original Sin?

Quote: Evenbob

Fundamentally none can be proven right
or wrong, that's why they last so long.

I know you would like to think so but that is not correct. There are ways to prove any truth statement right or wrong. Even the spiritual element of religion can be shown to be true or false. Remember that there are other sciences besides the physical ones. Anthropology, psychology, sociology, etc. are all places in which many theories or moral philosophies have gone to die.

Quote:

It is important. It's what pays the priests
salaries and keeps the missions going.

Nope, what keeps the priests and the missions going is not money. Many missions started and continue still today as mendicant orders begging for food or other needs. Our founder was an itinerant preacher and who was truly God, we are going to be okay. You have to remember Christianity is not about ruling or power, it is the leaven of society helping it to rise by God's Grace. Our worst times, not our best, was when we had Papal lands and standing armies. We are so much stronger when we are poor and need to trust not in worldly powers but in God. The news of our demise is greatly exaggerated.

Quote: FrGamble

Nareed,
I was wondering if I might PM you for your advice on a difficult pastoral matter that has just arisen. Would that be okay?

I wonder what makes you think you'll like my advice. But sure, go ahead. Just keep in mind that, like Asimov, I reserve the right to say "I don't know" as a valid answer.

Quote: Nareed

I wonder what makes you think you'll like my advice. But sure, go ahead. Just keep in mind that, like Asimov, I reserve the right to say "I don't know" as a valid answer.

Religion does not do that, unfortunately.

Quote: FrGamble

I know you would like to think so but that is not correct.

You certainly haven't shown Xtionity to
have a bit of truth in it in the two years
you've been trying. All we've seen is
opinion and Biblical hearsay. You can't
show that the spirituality of Mormonism
or even Scientology isn't true either.

Quote:

Nope, what keeps the priests and the missions going is not money. .

Don't tell that to my brother in law, his church
has missions in Africa that are funded by nothing
but donations. Money.

Quote:

You have to remember Christianity is not about ruling or power

Three Corporations Run the World: City of London, Washington DC and Vatican City

"There are 3 cities on earth that come under no national authority, they have separate laws, they pay no taxes, they have their own police force and even possess their own flag of ‘independence’. These 3 cities control the economy, military onslaughts and the spiritual beings of those in power. The 3 cities are actually corporations and they are the City of London, District of Columbia and the Vatican. Together they control politicians, the courts, educational institutions, food supply, natural resources, foreign policies, economies, media, and the money flow of most nations as well as 80% of the world’s entire wealth."

Quote: FrGamble

I am not saying that just because lots of people believe something makes it true. However, it means a whole heck of a lot more than diddly squat.

Nope, it really doesn't. What it really means
is, millions of people were born into a religion,
raised in it, told every day that it's true, and
in their adult life are too lazy to question it.
So millions and billions believing just because
they were told to, does indeed mean diddly
squat. It doesn't matter which religion it is,
it's a belief system that goes mostly unexamined,
unquestioned, and unchallenged for their entire
lives. Organized religions count on the total
lack of curiosity in the majority of it's followers.

Quote: Evenbob

Three Corporations Run the World: City of London, Washington DC and Vatican City.

It's a little weird and a little scary to hear you say this. It sounds an awful like a wacky conspiracy theory thing. It also is strange considering how you have been recently railing against the Church saying how weak and ineffectual she is anymore.

Quote: Evenbob

Nope, it really doesn't. What it really means
is, millions of people were born into a religion,
raised in it, told every day that it's true, and
in their adult life are too lazy to question it.

So you think myself and millions of people, including some of the smartest men and women ever to live are just lazy and don't question their faith. Is that what you are saying?

Quote:

It doesn't matter which religion it is,
it's a belief system that goes mostly unexamined,
unquestioned, and unchallenged for their entire
lives. Organized religions count on the total
lack of curiosity in the majority of it's followers.

Why do you think so poorly of religious people? I think we all should and do in one way or another question and examine our beliefs. I wonder if you are doing so sometimes with your atheism/reincarnation/conspirancy theory/prejudieced towards asians and Christians and maybe others/trump beliefs. Orginized religions, at least healthy ones, depend upon and encourage curiosity and questions - it is how you grow in faith.

Question for FrGamble.

Concerning the two other guys crucified with Jesus. Assume they didn't believe; where would they be now?

Sorry, I've gotten the impression FrG doesn't think many people are going to Hell. So, I'm just curious where those two were going if they didn't believe in Jesus.

Quote: FrGamble

So you think myself and millions of people, including some of the smartest men and women ever to live are just lazy and don't question their faith. Is that what you are saying?

I've never personally known anybody that
seriously questioned their faith. It's so much
easier to go along to get along.

Quote:

Orginized religions... depend upon and encourage curiosity and questions - it is how you grow in faith.

But not statements like, "I've been thinking
and have realized Jesus wasn't god, or a
savior, and that I've been hoodwinked."

The questions you like are, was Jesus a
vegetarian? Did Mary have more children?
Why did Jesus need to be baptized? Was
Paul Gay? Why aren't the Gnostic Gospels
in the NT?

If you got earth shattering losing faith
questions day in and day out, that would
be great. But you don't. My bro in law
certainly doesn't, I think he'd be thrown
for a loop if he did.

Quote: rxwine

Question for FrGamble.

Concerning the two other guys crucified with Jesus. Assume they didn't believe; where would they be now?

Sorry, I've gotten the impression FrG doesn't think many people are going to Hell. So, I'm just curious where those two were going if they didn't believe in Jesus.

One of them is explictly told that he will be in Heaven that day. The other we don't know, but we should never presume or sit in judgement of anyone going to Hell. We know so little of our own hearts much less those of others.

I dare hope that all be saved, it is the express wish of Christ Himself in the Gospels. However, while we know of no one explicitly in Hell we can unfortunately be fairly certain that some, hopefully not many, have chosen to reject God by their lives, hate others, harm others, and fail to repent and accept the mercy of Christ. These would choose Hell and God will not stop them if they abuse their freedom to chose so.