Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

If by properties you are referring to the accidents of bread and wine that actually is the teaching in regards to transubstantiation. I'm glad you understand it.

"Transubstantiation (in Latin, transsubstantiatio, in Greek μετουσίωσις metousiosis) is, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, the change by which the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Jesus ..."

So YOU understand it's been proven many
times this never happens, right? Watch Ed's
video, learn something.

Quote: FrGamble

I also always wonder how they do the control on these studies.

Very precisely. One university study cost
a million dollars and lasted over 2 years

Quote:

Life is amazing and the fact that there is something rather than nothing is a miracle of God.

You do realize that when every fricking
thing is a miracle that nothing is a miracle,
right? God doesn't exist, so a miracle of
god life is not. Life is what it is, quit trying
to blame god for everything you don't
understand.

Quote: Evenbob

Watch Ed's
video, learn something.

I know he has pictures of himself as a priest but now after watching that video I am more certain that there was something seriously lacking in his formation to the priesthood that directly led to him leaving the priesthood.

I would encourage you to read John chapter 6 if you really want to learn something about the Eucharist.

By the way transubstantiation is when the substance of the bread and wine are changed while the accidents of bread and wine remain. Therefore while it looks, tastes, and seems to the senses to be bread and wine its essence if you will is what is changed into the real presence of Jesus Christ.

Quote: Evenbob

Very precisely. One university study cost
a million dollars and lasted over 2 years

They have to do it all over and tell me and all the monks and religious in the world to stop praying for the sick and that is not going to happen. I'm sorry that I inadvertently messed up their studies.

God does exist. With your bias and closed mindedness it will take a miracle for you to recognize that but I am confident you will. I'm curious about reincarnation, would you consider that a miracle?

Quote: FrGamble

Therefore while it looks, tastes, and seems to the senses to be bread and wine its essence if you will is what is changed into the real presence of Jesus Christ.

This is the same nonsense magicians and supernatural
charlatans spew. It's utter tripe, the only essence present
is the essence of a falsehood.

"An important doctrine of Catholicism affirms that the wheat wafer known as the host or sacramental bread, which is used in the sacrament of Eucharist or Holy Communion, actually becomes the body of Jesus Christ in a process called transubstantiation," said Brigitte Boisselier, PhD. "But DNA analysis performed on five different hosts collected after the Catholic ritual of consecration showed no DNA change whatsoever in them. The wheat DNA remained wheat DNA, with no human DNA present other than that resulting from contamination caused by human handling of the hosts. This study clearly falsifies the claim that a religious ritual performed by a priest can actually change the substance of a bread wafer into the substance of a human body."

Quote: FrGamble

They have to do it all over and tell me and all the monks and religious in the world to stop praying

It's your time to waste. You only do it
because it makes you feel personally
powerful. Instead of doing something
that would effect a sick person in a
real way, you pray because it's easy,
fast, costs you nothing and makes you
feel good. It's all about you.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm curious about reincarnation, would you consider that a miracle?

There are no miracles, another religious
myth. Everything is a miracle until we
find out why it really works.

Quote: Dalex64

That has nothing to do with whether or not prayer causes measurable physical changes in the world. It doesn't.

Altered mental states do cause, or can cause, changes within a person. Some kinds of prayer have an effect similar to meditation for some people. Toa lesser degree, routine also affects people. Upsetting the routine has effects. Waking up earlier, skipping a meal or missing a prayer service all have similar effects on a person's day.

Past that, no.

Whether such kinds of prayer are beneficial or not is debatable. Whether they are a universal good is patently ridiculous. Human beings are not stamped spiritually from the same mold.

Quote: FrGamble

By the way transubstantiation is when the substance of the bread and wine are changed while the accidents of bread and wine remain. Therefore while it looks, tastes, and seems to the senses to be bread and wine its essence if you will is what is changed into the real presence of Jesus Christ.

No. That's what happens to pasta and marinara sauce, which become the flesh and blood of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (he boiled for you).

Can you prove this isn't so? I mean, if you were to analyze the pasta and sauce, I assure you beyond any doubt they'd remain the accidents of pasta and sauce, completely undistinguishable from an untransubstantiated sample. That's all it takes, no?

BTW I'm still awaiting proof the one true God Melkart is not real.

Quote: Nareed

Altered mental states do cause, or can cause, changes within a person. Some kinds of prayer have an effect similar to meditation for some people. Toa lesser degree, routine also affects people. Upsetting the routine has effects. Waking up earlier, skipping a meal or missing a prayer service all have similar effects on a person's day.

Past that, no.

Whether such kinds of prayer are beneficial or not is debatable. Whether they are a universal good is patently ridiculous. Human beings are not stamped spiritually from the same mold.

I think a good control would be: 4,000 people have terminal cancer and there are 10 people in a prayer group. All receive the same treatments. 1,000 people are not prayed for at all. 1,000 people are prayed for and the patient does not know it. 1,000 people are prayed for and the patient knows it. 1,000 people are not prayed for but the patient is told that they were prayed for.

For me, it makes me feel better when people are praying for me and I know it. It takes away stress, and makes me feel part of a community. People are thinking about me, and that is definitely beneficial both from a mental and therefore from a health standpoint. I don't think you could argue that point because studies have shown that stress is a factor in many diseases and therefore prayer would help. But I think that I would need to know that people are praying for me for it to be beneficial.

For your own personal prayer, it is definitely a form of meditation and organizing thoughts. Sometimes I will pray before bed about an issue and then have a solution for it in the morning, an "answered prayer". But I know that this could equally be the same result of thinking about something before going to bed. Studies have shown that your brain is able to put things together in a non-linear way while you are sleeping, including the problems of the day.

Whether God is involved is a matter of faith.

Quote: boymimbo

I think a good control would be:
.

This has been done for a hundred years
on large scales and small. The result is
always the same. Prayer does nothing
different than the group that wasn't
prayed for. How could it.