Iran..

Quote: Gandler

I think you are mixing up Hezbollah and Houthi, Iran has no direct control to make the Houthis do anything. They have a vague alliance, and provide them weapons because they will people they don't like. But, they have no direct control over them.

As for Hezbollah, do you know why Hezbollah was formed in the 80s? If you don't, do some research, neither Israel nor the U.S. were the good guys in that... Does that give them an unlimited license to do what they do now? I would say no, some may say yes.

However, all that being said. Tribal and local alliances, are not relevant to agreements. Iran violated no agreement. If anything the U.S. did by pulling out in 2018 and reimplementing sanctions. Even IF (it's a big if,) they had some uranium over the limit, in my opinion we have zero right to judge that after pulling out of the inspection agreement. I don't like it, but we reap what we sow...

And, now it sounds like a deal may be pushed off after Israel and the war hawks in Congress have been hassling Trump about the deal not being good enough. My sense is Trump really wants this over, certain other parties want to restart combat. All of yesterday we were told we should have the deal released to us by the end of the day (Sunday,) now we are being told "there is no rush," and don't expect updates anytime soon... My suspicion is there was a deal, and the hardliners in the GOP hated it because it was a watered down Obama deal... And, now Trump is backtracking...

Direct control? If I give a bunch of guns to a group of criminals and they go out and kills some citizens in the commission of their crimes, do you say I shouldn’t be stopped because I didn’t have ‘direct control’ of the criminals? Come on!

I agree with your last paragraph.

I don't care if a Trump deal comes out of this, as Iran is still going to violate it over time as long their current régime holds. If you think that is not true, just wait.

Now Trump has to come up with a deal to get the Strait back to where it was before. Israel and US have to go back to monitoring Iran and maybe striking again, but now there is even greater risk Iran forces in the Strait will be even more ready to cause disruption if that happens so it will require equal preparedness on our part.

So the fat oaf wants the other Middle East countries to join in the Abraham Accords as part of his so-called Iran peace plan?

Good luck with that.

Obviously he's jonesing for the Nobel Peace Price, and obviously he has zero understanding of history.

Peace in the Middle East?

With Israel occupying the so-called "holy land," having displaced its rightful occupants?

Bwa ha ha ha

Iran continues to play this fool like a Stradivarius.

Quote: SOOPOO

Direct control? If I give a bunch of guns to a group of criminals and they go out and kills some citizens in the commission of their crimes, do you say I shouldn’t be stopped because I didn’t have ‘direct control’ of the criminals? Come on!

I agree with your last paragraph.

That would be an interesting comment if we did not live in a country that routinely supplied weapons to groups that target civilians....

The Contras alone (which I would bet younger you, heavily supported in the 80s,) we routinely shipped weapons despite their primary tactic targeting civilians in very brutal ways. And, we were their main weapons provider for over 10 years....

The Mujadeen also in the 80s (which became the Taliban,) we were fine supplying as long as Russian and Russian loyalists in Afghanistan were on the receiving end of their terrorism....

More recently we supplied all kinds of groups in Syria who oppose Assad who are Islamic groups that make Iran's proxies look mild.

Heck, we even supply guns to Mexican cartels just so we can track how they enter the country. And Mexican cartels kill a lot of civilians.

Even the KLA is more nuanced. But, now over 20 years later, I think it is fair to call them a terrorist group, and even if you do not, they certainly committed crimes against civilians.

So the idea that we do not routinely and overwhelming supply weapons and money to extremist groups that target civilians is a farce. We are far more guilty of that than Iran ever would be. And, at least in the case of Iran, they only target about 3 different countries, whereas we have committed such crimes in every continent (except Antarctica.)

Prior to the 1890s, America was pretty good at keeping to itself. But, since the Spanish American War, we have been becoming pretty bad at funding terrorist groups, and for the last 130 years we are debatably the worst in the world based sheerly on the scale of America because of our size and wealth. So making these critics are fine, but as the bible says, until you remove the log from your eye do not worry about the sawdust in your brothers eye. My guess is over the next 50 years China will take this title from us, that does not make our current and past actions right though.