General Election 2024

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Quote: Mission146

My default position is that there is a non-zero amount of fraud in every POTUS Election, and I assume that this is done by both sides. Evidently, there were a few Trumpanzees charged with various things along those lines. I think any voter fraud is likely to be mostly self-cancelling, and even if it benefits one side more than another, I don't think it does so to a sufficient enough degree to alter an election.

Pretty much Largely agree, to the degree of what I really know versus 'suspect'. I'll repeat, in case anyone missed it from previous posts: I don't think fraud got Biden elected over Trump. What I dont like is that we are close to a constitutional crisis over the way the election was done, that there should not be in place all the things I listed upthread getting worse all the time meanwhile nothing is being done to restore faith in our elections. All the liberalized-fraud-friendly voting is going to be repeated again.

What do I suggest? something close to the Carter/Baker recommendations in case you missed that, a good ways upthread

As far as 'not caring', I'll just state again that when things go totally to hell in a country, all the enthusiastic revolutionaries come to find out they don't have control over the outcome after all. All the Lefties here are cheering for fraud-friendly elections because they think they will control what happens when the country can't take it anymore. I'll just remind them that not just old, but recent, history has given a warning about this. All the Old Progressives were giving money and otherwise supporting all kinds of leftist crap including in colleges, but other places as well, only to find out the New Leftists were going total antisemitic ... to their great surprise it seems

No sympathy at all for you, OG. You keep claiming suspected fraudulent outcome of elections without evidence and what fraud has been discovered has no overall effect.

You also suggest we listen to loons, and do something to appease them so they don't have to wear tinfoil hats so snug on their heads being suspicious.

Quote: odiousgambit

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Pretty much Largely agree, to the degree of what I really know versus 'suspect'. I'll repeat, in case anyone missed it from previous posts: I don't think fraud got Biden elected over Trump. What I dont like is that we are close to a constitutional crisis over the way the election was done, that there should not be in place all the things I listed upthread getting worse all the time meanwhile nothing is being done to restore faith in our elections. All the liberalized-fraud-friendly voting is going to be repeated again.

What do I suggest? something close to the Carter/Baker recommendations in case you missed that, a good ways upthread

As far as 'not caring', I'll just state again that when things go totally to hell in a country, all the enthusiastic revolutionaries come to find out they don't have control over the outcome after all. All the Lefties here are cheering for fraud-friendly elections because they think they will control what happens when the country can't take it anymore. I'll just remind them that not just old, but recent, history has given a warning about this. All the Old Progressives were giving money and otherwise supporting all kinds of leftist crap including in colleges, but other places as well, only to find out the New Leftists were going total antisemitic ... to their great surprise it seems

The constitutional crisis didn't come from the left, but from the right who staged a violent insurrection to overturn the results of a free and fair election that Donnie lost.

None of the things you listed upthread are getting worse, Indeed, 2020 was the most secure in American history, and neither Donnie nor his minions nor his cultists have any evidence otherwise. The only people who don't have faith in the elections are the irrational Trumpanzees who will not accept any result except a MAGA victory. And those people are not to be placated, but opposed at every turn.

As for the Carter/Baker recommendations, if you want to (a) Increase coordination between states, counties and municipalities on voter lists (b) give every citizen FREE OF CHARGE a Real ID as evidence of voting eligibility (c) increase voter access to voting options via more voting centers or other methods, fine by me.

Quote: rxwine

No sympathy at all for you, OG. You keep claiming suspected fraudulent outcome of elections ...

I came across *pretty strong* about that in response to a claim from someone that, paraphrasing, "only an orangutan could think there was too much fraud" in the 2020 election. That got me going because you can make your case just fine without suggesting people are apes, or wear tinfoil hats. At this point my real concern is we are not going to fix this lack of faith in our elections, leading to I don't know what, do you?

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... without evidence...

there is plenty of evidence that fraud-friendly voting methods have grown by leaps and bounds. There's no excuse for this to continue, but it will because there is a group of people who favor fraud-friendly methods. Who does that seem to be? well, they're not worried, because they know they are going to have control over things when they go to hell, quit worrying.

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...and what fraud has been discovered has no overall effect.

fraud-friendly methods have a way of not being discovered. Same way if you start leaving your money on the sidewalk, might turn out it's hard to find out who took it.

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You also suggest we listen to loons, and do something to appease them so they don't have to wear tinfoil hats so snug on their heads being suspicious.

Jimmy Carter is a loon?

Quote: GenoDRPh

The constitutional crisis didn't come from the left, but from the right who staged a violent insurrection to overturn the results of a free and fair election that Donnie lost.

so no need to worry. The nutty right will just go away. Quit worrying.

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None of the things you listed upthread are getting worse, Indeed, 2020 was the most secure in American history...

that claim from the Democrat playbook kills me. My turn to ask for evidence other than "saying it makes it true" from some Democrat.

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As for the Carter/Baker recommendations, if you want to (a) Increase coordination between states, counties and municipalities on voter lists (b) give every citizen FREE OF CHARGE a Real ID as evidence of voting eligibility (c) increase voter access to voting options via more voting centers or other methods, fine by me.

The Real ID idea was the weak part of that study. Existing forms of IDs will work just fine.

Quote: odiousgambit

so no need to worry. The nutty right will just go away. Quit worrying.

that claim from the Democrat playbook kills me. My turn to ask for evidence other than "saying it makes it true" from some Democrat.

The Real ID idea was the weak part of that study. Existing forms of IDs will work just fine.

The nutty right should all be in jail for their insurrection. Those who engaged in it, at least. That includes Donnie.

The claim was not from the Democrat playbook. The claim came from the DHS during Donnie' administration. And there is no evidence otherwise.

The Real ID was part of the Carter/Baker report. Now you don't want to adopt the Carter/Baker recommendations in full?

Quote: GenoDRPh

The nutty right should all be in jail for their insurrection. Those who engaged in it, at least. That includes Donnie.

The claim was not from the Democrat playbook. The claim came from the DHS during Donnie' administration. And there is no evidence otherwise.

The Real ID was part of the Carter/Baker report. Now you don't want to adopt the Carter/Baker recommendations in full?

I think the Real ID idea helped kill the Carter/Baker recommendations, so I feel that part of it has to go if anyone like myself still wants to advocate them. I'm advocating them because it shows there is a bipartisan way forward.

The claim from the DHS found it's way into the Democrat playbook, where it is beloved, regardless of where it originated. I'd like to know what action exactly Homeland Security took in any way shape or form to secure that election.

For now, I think it has to be similar technology as an ATM machine (aka retinal scan, etc.) for the front end.

Because passports, photo IDs, etc., can be forged (regenerative AI).


But definitely not DNA samples, like they do with a person when getting a C19 test.

Super Computers likely already know personal stuff, even if a person didn't take a C19 vax, because of C19 tests to travel, employment, etc.

Whether or not this was the purpose of C19, I don't know.


As for the back end, anything in a cloud (centralized) can be penetrated.

The data has to be stored on a blockchain (decentralized) for it to be secure.

Then a person can authorize another to view specific personal information.


If something is in the cloud, like voting data, then that data can be penetrated.

When voting from a blockchain, authorize the authorities to tabulate your vote.


Voting records must be tabulated through blockchains (decentralized).

And must not be tabulated through centralization, like a cloud.


With a cloud, there's a front end and a back end.

The front end makes sure a person is whom the person claims.

The back end stores the data.


The front end and back end of a blockchain, can be combined and only controlled through one person, the voter.

The ballot vote is in a blockchain so no need for audits other than for a computer to tabulate the blockchain.

But the code to do this must be audited by partisan code experts.


So in theory, if persons wanted to overthrow a government, they need to have centralized data like a cloud.

They sell cloud technology not blockchain technology, so far for voting purposes.


I'm convinced this is how the election was stolen.

The back end, not the front end.

Quote: DoubleGold

For now, I think it has to be similar technology as an ATM machine (aka retinal scan, etc.) for the front end.

they have retinal scans now for ATMs?

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... passports, photo IDs, etc., can be forged (regenerative AI).

even so, I think they are good enough , unless I don't know how much trouble some are willing to go to

I'm liking this term, "fraud-friendly", not seeing others use it.