General Election 2024

Quote: Mission146

This is so ridiculous! The Democrats truly deserve whatever they get, at this point. I know they're floating the ability for individual states to remove Trump from the ballot, but Biden won Colorado by 13.5% and Illinois by 17%; the only thing they are doing is continuing to make Trump a sympathetic figure.

He had a fair trial, with a fair result. The Supreme Court may overrule it, but the State assessed their requirements against Trump's actions. Personally I am getting more sympathetic with the argument that he was engaged in insurrection. Will this change the mind of magas? No, but nothing will, that is not the point. If you think being nice to Trump will change the mind of magas, you are living in an alternative reality. It is not a matter of political expedience, it is a matter of holding him responsible for his actions (or inactions.)

Quote: OnceDear

And with your EC system, do you think that will hold him back.

That is my point. He will never be the majority favorite, but he already won one election in the minority, and may win a second. You can be overwhelmingly hated in the U.S. and still win the Presidential Election because of an outdated system. It is very sad.

Quote: Gandler

That is my point. He will never be the majority favorite, but he already won one election in the minority, and may win a second. You can be overwhelmingly hated in the U.S. and still win the Presidential Election because of an outdated system. It is very sad.

It is not an outdated system. It is a system that protects everyone from heavily populated states from controlling everything. They already get a bigger share of folks in Congress due to the population. The EC helps keep a bit of balance in the government.

He has been beaten and can be beaten again. It is the Republican voters who are at fault for him being in the race, but it is not the Republicans who are picking the candidate to face him in the general election.

Quote: RonC

It is not an outdated system. It is a system that protects everyone from heavily populated states from controlling everything. They already get a bigger share of folks in Congress due to the population. The EC helps keep a bit of balance in the government.

He has been beaten and can be beaten again. It is the Republican voters who are at fault for him being in the race, but it is not the Republicans who are picking the candidate to face him in the general election.

if we ever go to popular vote instead of the EC, the two coasts will elect the President every time and everybody else is wasting their time voting

Quote: odiousgambit

if we ever go to popular vote instead of the EC, the two coasts will elect the President every time and everybody else is wasting their time voting

If the two coasts have the majority of the population, then is if not just that they are proportionally represented?

Remember, 'no taxation without representation'? 'He who pays the piper calls the tune.'? If that's 200 million adults on the coast, so be it

Instead, with EC, you get a handful of swing states that have disproportionate power and decide the fate of those populous states.

https://www.procon.org/headlines/electoral-college-pros-cons-procon-org/

from the beginning, it was all about whether small states should join the United States. They agreed to under the specific terms because they wouldn't be overpowered by the populous states when joining the union. All have 2 senators too instead of, I dunno, 6 for California and one for Wyoming

Quote: OnceDear

If the two coasts have the majority of the population, then is if not just that they are proportionally represented?

Remember, 'no taxation without representation'? 'He who pays the piper calls the tune.'? If that's 200 million adults on the coast, so be it

Instead, with EC, you get a handful of swing states that have disproportionate power and decide the fate of those populous states.

https://www.procon.org/headlines/electoral-college-pros-cons-procon-org/

Get off your high horse OD. The parliamentary constituencies in Britain are not equal in population. Your new distribution will try and keep them within 5% of the target. The election of your Prime Minister is by parliament and usually the largest party gets to appoint them. Often the MP's of this party will represent less than 50% of the population.

Quote: OnceDear

If the two coasts have the majority of the population, then is if not just that they are proportionally represented?

They are proportionally represented in the House of Representatives. Some states have a single representative; some have more than 25.

There are swing states in the EC process, but they will not always be the same ones. Florida used to be run by Democrats but now is seen as a Republican state. That can change.

There are enough idiots out there that don't see the genius of the process that it may get overturned. That would be a dark day with the large cities ending up with all the power and generally crapping on everyone else.

It ain't perfect, but is way better than most systems...the problem that needs fixed is permanent politicians, not the system.

Quote: kenarman

Get off your high horse OD. The parliamentary constituencies in Britain are not equal in population. Your new distribution will try and keep them within 5% of the target. The election of your Prime Minister is by parliament and usually the largest party gets to appoint them. Often the MP's of this party will represent less than 50% of the population.

Not on my Horse, K, I'm just debating the merits of another nations electoral syste,. It's a bit Ironic that a Canadian that does the same can't see how reasonable it is to discuss.
I understand OD's point about playing fair to the less populous states, but in a nation where all men are created equal I'd have anticipated them having an equal vote.

The UK system is indeed flawed too, but that wasn't the topic.

With our largest party deciding the PM, we are possibly more able to get legislation passed than if our PM were elected separately and ending up being in opposition to parliament. But of course 'getting things done does include 'getting stupid things' badly done.

In Europe, there are multi party nations where every election results in weird coalitions of minor players. That does make for some 'interesting' laws and directions.

god save the king. LOL.

(I don't believe in one and I don't support the other)

Quote: RonC

There are enough idiots out there that don't see the genius of the process that it may get overturned. That would be a dark day with the large cities ending up with all the power and generally crapping on everyone else.

Maybe, but interests cross state lines. Some people probably think NYC is the only thing in NY State, but there are over 30,000 registered farms there. It's also the third largest state for dairy products.