The Election Fraud Thread

Quote: AZDuffman

Well, making a phone call seems to be the standard.

Oh yes if making that phone call is ordering the generation of votes it 100% is.

Quote: AZDuffman

Well, next time pay attention. Would you tell your mother to just deal with it if the boss had a woman servicing him in his office? Tell your daughter? It was not hostile to Monica, it was hostile to every other employee in the place.

Sorry that is not what a hostile work environment is.

Quote: AZDuffman

The emails were about the Obama church, but since you brought it up, it was proven that C-BS had the Monica story and was burying it. Dems held to a higher standard? A laugh based on that alone! Are you old enough to remember the whole thing? CBS intentionally sat on the story of the decade, until their sitting on it became the story.

I am not old enough to remember what CBS did with a Monica story from the 90s. Today, Democrats are held to a higher standard, and Republicans cover for their own, this is cut and dry, I am not sure how you are arguing this.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_United_States

Look at the list for the last 5 years, and see how many Republicans got outed (not counting losing the next election, I mean resigned or removed,) versus how many Democrats. Gaetz is one of the more prominent ones, and he is still blabbing way too much in public (one of the more problematic politicians that exist currently for a host of other reasons as well.)

It is easy to look at the raw numbers on this for the last 5 years, this is not some esoteric issue.

Quote: Gandler

Sorry that is not what a hostile work environment is.

You had better check with HR. I am pretty sure most reasonable women would not accept this, and most men as well. Pay attention to that annual sexual harassment training next time.

Quote:

I am not old enough to remember what CBS did with a Monica story from the 90s.

They had the story on Monica and sat on it. Matt Drudge became famous by breaking that they were doing this.

Quote: AZDuffman

You had better check with HR. I am pretty sure most reasonable women would not accept this, and most men as well. Pay attention to that annual sexual harassment training next time.

You keep changing the goalposts. It does not matter what most women want or would accept, you said I did not understand the definition of hostile work environment, that is not what this is.

Quote: AZDuffman

They had the story on Monica and sat on it. Matt Drudge became famous by breaking that they were doing this.

Yes, and Thomas Jefferson had sex with some of his slaves, possibly rape, possibly power imbalance, either way definitely wrong. And, the newspapers covered for him (except for those that were political opponents) when there were inquiries. This is surely relevant to how modern Republicans handle sex scandals.

Quote: Gandler

You keep changing the goalposts. It does not matter what most women want or would accept, you said I did not understand the definition of hostile work environment, that is not what this is.

If you do not find that to be a hostile work environment I cannot further explain it to you. I suggest you try it at your place of employment and see what happens.

Quote:

Yes, and Thomas Jefferson had sex with some of his slaves, possibly rape, possibly power imbalance, either way definitely wrong. And, the newspapers covered for him (except for those that were political opponents) when there were inquiries. This is surely relevant to how modern Republicans handle sex scandals.

Has nothing to do with a major network covering for a POTUS based on party. Same network made up a negative story on Bush43 a few years later.

Quote: AZDuffman

If you do not find that to be a hostile work environment I cannot further explain it to you. I suggest you try it at your place of employment and see what happens.

You are the one who cited the formal definition based on standard training, this is not a hostile work environment by the standard definition. What I personally think is right or wrong has no bearing on the definition.

Quote: AZDuffman

Has nothing to do with a major network covering for a POTUS based on party. Same network made up a negative story on Bush43 a few years later.

This is very different than how a party internally reacts to wrongdoing. I have no idea about what private networks did what back then. But, I am speaking with how the party command reacts to wrongdoings. And, Democrats are harsher to internal wrongdoers in the last five years, this is also not debatable.

Quote: Gandler

You are the one who cited the formal definition based on standard training, this is not a hostile work environment by the standard definition. What I personally think is right or wrong has no bearing on the definition.

It would be based on any training I have had.

Quote: AZDuffman

It would be based on any training I have had.

Can you cite your definition? I am tracking hostile work environment as being a workplace where there is systemic or social discrimination against a protected group (usually gender or race related,) or systemic bullying or certain people.

Some intern sleeping with her boss, and getting undue promotions is problematic (and likely a violation of other regulations,) but not a hostile work environment (by any training that I am aware of.)

Quote: Gandler

Can you cite your definition? I am tracking hostile work environment as being a workplace where there is systemic or social discrimination against a protected group (usually gender or race related,) or systemic bullying or certain people.

Some intern sleeping with her boss, and getting undue promotions is problematic (and likely a violation of other regulations,) but not a hostile work environment (by any training that I am aware of.)

Well, it has been found that guys having nude or other explicit girlie pics hanging is a hostile environment. So working in an office where the boss is being, "serviced" by an intern would certainly be beyond that.

It does not have to be "bullying" or "discrimination" just a place where a reasonable person would be uncomfortable. It would not have to be guys with girlie pics. It could be gay guys with gay pics. It could be women talking explicitly about the night they had with their husbands.

The key is "reasonable person." I used to put pics of various women up as my computer background, but they were women like Chloe from "24" or Lisa Cuddy from "House." IOW, barely rated PG, just in fun. Places I have been if it is borderline a boss may ask a few women their opinion just to be safe.

I take it you think it is reasonable for that kind of behavior in a workplace?

Quote: AZDuffman

Well, it has been found that guys having nude or other explicit girlie pics hanging is a hostile environment. So working in an office where the boss is being, "serviced" by an intern would certainly be beyond that.

It does not have to be "bullying" or "discrimination" just a place where a reasonable person would be uncomfortable. It would not have to be guys with girlie pics. It could be gay guys with gay pics. It could be women talking explicitly about the night they had with their husbands.

The key is "reasonable person." I used to put pics of various women up as my computer background, but they were women like Chloe from "24" or Lisa Cuddy from "House." IOW, barely rated PG, just in fun. Places I have been if it is borderline a boss may ask a few women their opinion just to be safe.

I take it you think it is reasonable for that kind of behavior in a workplace?

You are conflating issues, an office covered with sexualized photos could be hostile, because it could be targeted at one gender. Two people have a quiet affair is not a hostile work environment.



Take the EEOC's characteristics:

What are the elements of a prima facie hostile work environment claim?

To establish a prima facie hostile work environment claim, an employee must show the following:

Conduct – the employee was subjected to conduct based on a legally protected characteristic;
Objective hostility – the conduct was either so severe or frequent (it does not have to be both) that a reasonable person in the employee’s position would conclude that the working conditions were abusive;
Subjective hostility – the employee actually found the conduct to be hostile (i.e., the employee did not welcome the conduct); and
Liability – the employer can be held liable for the harassment.
https://www.eeoc.gov/summary-key-provisions-eeoc-enforcement-guidance-harassment-workplace

Quote: Gandler

You are conflating issues, an office covered with sexualized photos could be hostile, because it could be targeted at one gender. Two people have a quiet affair is not a hostile work environment.

It was not a quiet affair. It was in the Oval Office. I will ask you again....do YOU find that to be acceptable behavior at work?

Quote:

Objective hostility – the conduct was either so severe or frequent (it does not have to be both) that a reasonable person in the employee’s position would conclude that the working conditions were abusive

I think any reasonable person would not accept this behavior. I cannot think of a place I have worked where both parties would not be fired.