Presidential Election 2020 Biden vs. Trump

Quote: ams288

Don’t know, don’t care.

You only care about Saudi assassinations okay I got it.

Quote: kenarman

You only care about Saudi assassinations okay I got it.

Yup.

(Not really; just not going to entertain your false equivalences).

Quote: kenarman

How much of the body was left after the 1000+ drone assassinations approved by Obama?

This may be one of the most insane equivelencies I have read.

Drone strikes are comparable to an assassination in an embassy by a foreign government?

Even if you view drone strikes as a negative (they are not), you do realize Trump has authorized countless drone strikes? (literally countless, because unlike Obama he does not release body counts). Why do you think that is?

Quote: Gandler

This may be one of the most insane equivelencies I have read.

Drone strikes are comparable to an assassination in an embassy by a foreign government?

Even if you view drone strikes as a negative (they are not), you do realize Trump has authorized countless drone strikes? (literally countless, because unlike Obama he does not release body counts). Why do you think that is?

Both are getting rid of your political opponent care to expand on why one is more moral than the other.

Quote: kenarman

Both are getting rid of your political opponent care to expand on why one is more moral than the other.

Because you are implying Obama killed more than Trump with drones. Which, because of Trump's policies we will never know. Which I actually don't have a problem with, except for your bashing of Obama when at least he was transparent about it.

As for which is worse? I don't have a PhD in Philosophy or Ethics, but its safe to say targeting enemy combatants is more moral than killing a journalist who is not an imminent threat, and is only retaliation for being critical of you.

I never thought I would live to see the day when the right slobbers over Saudi Arabia.... People do not realize how socially backwards they are, its a dictatorship propped up by theology (and a lot of oil money). I don't think that most here realize the scope of their power and their influence over America.....

But, yes Trump still does drone strikes, anyone who denies that is simply wrong. And, no you cannot compare the numbers, because well they are not released to the public per his directive.... Maybe, like his tax returns he does not want the numbers released because they are better than Obamas? But, you would have to be a real Trump fan boy to go that far (there are some here that are close).


So to summarize, yes Trump uses drone strikes, no he does not release the body count (so you cannot say he kills less than Obama), and yes killing innocent civilians for being critical of your regime is more unethical than targeting enemy combatants where some civilans sadly die due to collateral damage.... None of this should be controversial, but I guess we live in a world where facts are fleeting...

Quote: Gandler

Because you are implying Obama killed more than Trump with drones. Which, because of Trump's policies we will never know. Which I actually don't have a problem with, except for your bashing of Obama when at least he was transparent about it.

As for which is worse? I don't have a PhD in Philosophy or Ethics, but its safe to say targeting enemy combatants is more moral than killing a journalist who is not an imminent threat, and is only retaliation for being critical of you.

I never thought I would live to see the day when the right slobbers over Saudi Arabia.... People do not realize how socially backwards they are, its a dictatorship propped up by theology (and a lot of oil money). I don't think that most here realize the scope of their power and their influence over America.....

But, yes Trump still does drone strikes, anyone who denies that is simply wrong. And, no you cannot compare the numbers, because well they are not released to the public per his directive.... Maybe, like his tax returns he does not want the numbers released because they are better than Obamas? But, you would have to be a real Trump fan boy to go that far (there are some here that are close).


So to summarize, yes Trump uses drone strikes, no he does not release the body count (so you cannot say he kills less than Obama), and yes killing innocent civilians for being critical of your regime is more unethical than targeting enemy combatants where some civilans sadly die due to collateral damage.... None of this should be controversial, but I guess we live in a world where facts are fleeting...

I wasn't talking about Trump but his drone strikes are the same as Obama's morally. I feel state sanctioned murder is still murder morally no matter how it is carried out. Whether or not it is ever justified is a totally different question. We currently have people in the US that have been rioting for months since they feel the state and society have sanctioned the killing of a handful of black criminals. I would suspect that many of the victims of drone strikes were not active combatants but opposing the US in other ways. We certainly have had collateral damage in drone strikes among family and children.

These are very tough moral questions Gandler. I am not a bleeding heart and don't have the answers but arguing that journalists lives are more important seems rather shaky ground.

Quote: kenarman

I wasn't talking about Trump but his drone strikes are the same as Obama's morally. I feel state sanctioned murder is still murder morally no matter how it is carried out. Whether or not it is ever justified is a totally different question. We currently have people in the US that have been rioting for months since they feel the state and society have sanctioned the killing of a handful of black criminals. I would suspect that many of the victims of drone strikes were not active combatants but opposing the US in other ways. We certainly have had collateral damage in drone strikes among family and children.

These are very tough moral questions Gandler. I am not a bleeding heart and don't have the answers but arguing that journalists lives are more important seems rather shaky ground.

Its not a tough moral question.

Killing a journalist for speaking out against the government, who is not a member of a militant group, is not a physical threat, and is poses no danger to allied forces is wrong.

Killing an enemy combatant on a carefully reviewed strike is not wrong. We don't drone strike somebody who selling dope on the street in Pakistan. To warrant a drone strike you need to be a member of vast danger (high ranking in a terrorist organization or posing an imminent threat). Yes, when the explosion causes civilian deaths it is terrible.

Intentions matter. The difference is we are not intending to kill civilians. Tricking a journalist to come to an embassy, and then kill him, that is intending to kill a civilian for no other reason than he wrote negatively about you.

The fact that we have massive protests mocking the American government (wrongly in my opinion, but that's not the point), and they not only are allowed, but protected by the government, shows the difference between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. You cannot be critical of Saudi Arabia in Saudi Arabia (try it, if you don't believe me). Its hard to be critical outside it, as they have shown by their ability to get away with killing journalists who they do not like.

Research how Jamal Khashoggi fled Saudi Arabia and how they still managed to kill him.... There is no moral equivalence.

As for suspecting that more civilians are killed then enemy combatants by U.S. drone strikes, we used to know. But, thanks to your hero, the numbers are no longer released, so ask Trump about that one....
That is not something you can blame on the liberals. Obama was very open with his numbers (which were criticized by many, including Trump, so maybe ask yourself why Trump is not releasing the numbers?)


This should not be a tough moral question. Killing somebody for their speech is worse than killing somebody who poses a threat..... Nobody, is saying journalist lives are more important, the intentions behind the killings are what matters. In America we protect free speech (even when we hate it).

Quote: Gandler

Its not a tough moral question.

Killing a journalist for speaking out against the government, who is not a member of a militant group, is not a physical threat, and is poses no danger to allied forces is wrong.

Killing an enemy combatant on a carefully reviewed strike is not wrong. We don't drone strike somebody who selling dope on the street in Pakistan. To warrant a drone strike you need to be a member of vast danger (high ranking in a terrorist organization or posing an imminent threat). Yes, when the explosion causes civilian deaths it is terrible.

Intentions matter. The difference is we are not intending to kill civilians. Tricking a journalist to come to an embassy, and then kill him, that is intending to kill a civilian for no other reason than he wrote negatively about you.

The fact that we have massive protests mocking the American government (wrongly in my opinion, but that's not the point), and they not only are allowed, but protected by the government, shows the difference between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. You cannot be critical of Saudi Arabia in Saudi Arabia (try it, if you don't believe me). Its hard to be critical outside it, as they have shown by their ability to get away with killing journalists who they do not like.

Research how Jamal Khashoggi fled Saudi Arabia and how they still managed to kill him.... There is no moral equivalence.

As for suspecting that more civilians are killed then enemy combatants by U.S. drone strikes, we used to know. But, thanks to your hero, the numbers are no longer released, so ask Trump about that one....
That is not something you can blame on the liberals. Obama was very open with his numbers (which were criticized by many, including Trump, so maybe ask yourself why Trump is not releasing the numbers?)


This should not be a tough moral question. Killing somebody for their speech is worse than killing somebody who poses a threat..... Nobody, is saying journalist lives are more important, the intentions behind the killings are what matters. In America we protect free speech (even when we hate it).

I'm tired and don't feel like doing any more research but I found this and several similar in about 2 minutes. Quote is from Wikipedia. A journalist targeted by a US zone strike.

"Samir ibn Zafar Khan (December 25, 1985 – September 30, 2011) was the Pakistani American editor and publisher of Inspire magazine, an English-language online magazine reported to be published by al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). A citizen of the United States, he was killed in a drone strike in Yemen together with Anwar al-Awlaki.[1][2][3]"

Quote: kenarman

I'm tired and don't feel like doing any more research but I found this and several similar in about 2 minutes. Quote is from Wikipedia. A journalist targeted by a US zone strike.

"Samir ibn Zafar Khan (December 25, 1985 – September 30, 2011) was the Pakistani American editor and publisher of Inspire magazine, an English-language online magazine reported to be published by al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). A citizen of the United States, he was killed in a drone strike in Yemen together with Anwar al-Awlaki.[1][2][3]"

From the same page:

"Khan was killed in the Al Jawf Governorate of Yemen while traveling from the Ma'rib Governorate, in the same air-strike that killed Anwar al-Awlaki.[16] Both were U.S. citizens. According to U.S. officials Khan was not a significant enough target to have been specifically targeted but died because he was accompanying al-Awlaki."




Again, he was not targeted because he was critical of the U.S. he died because he was in a terrorist organization and happened to be hanging out with a higher level terrorist when the strike was called on him (he was not the target of the strike, you could say he was collateral damage, but he was a terrorist, and a bad person, so its probably for the best).

Atlantic Editor Admits Story About Trump Disparaging Fallen Soldiers Could Be Wrong

LOLOLOl! Ya think? I knew it was
BS as soon as I heard it.

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/atlantic-editor-admits-main-point-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong-21-officials-go-on-the-record-to-refute-story/