The Coronavirus thread

Quote: kenarman

Mar. 10, 2021 — The vaccines authorized for use in the U.S. are likely safe for both pregnant women and children under the age of 18, Dr. Anthony Fauci,

jfc - lighten up. I was making a joke.

"...likely safe..."

Nothing wrong with that.

Another reason to get vaccinated. The Delta variant that emerged in India, which is 60% more transmissable, produces more serious symptoms, and is possibly more deadly, now accounts for 10% of cases in the U.S. At least two vaccines are ‘highly effective’ against this variant.

"Delta variant may cause hearing loss, gangrene"

"One analysis by PHE of more than 38,000 COVID-19 cases in England found that people with the Delta variant were 2.61 times more likely to be hospitalized than those with the Alpha variant."

I guess it may be awhile, but the other interesting news will be how long the particular vaccines will be effective. It would be fantastic if any of the current four turn out to be effective for several years.

Quote: Gandler

For one, no they have not. For a conservative you do not seem to understand how private property works. If that store wants to require masks 10 years from now, they still can require masks. "lesson not to harass people" , no, that is not how it works, its their store, they can harass you all they want, if they want five employees to follow you around while on their property because you look suspicious that is their right, if they want three employees to keep yelling at you to leave, that is their right.....

I don't know how much Conservatives really focus on the concepts of private property and free association; it probably just varies from person to person. Many seem concerned when the subject matter is their private property, but not so much otherwise. Private property and respect for free association are bastions of the Libertarian.

Anyway, provided the property owner is not violating the law themselves, you just do what they say. I was at some mortgage place last week taking a phone call because I was staying at a hotel room with a friend and didn't want to talk in the room---an employee of the establishment (which I didn't even know was open at the time) came and asked me what I was doing and seemed satisfied with my answer. Five minutes later, he must have decided he was uncomfortable with me walking on the side of the parking lot and came out again to ask me to leave the property---silly, but I just wished him a good day and made my way somewhere else.

Not that I'll ever be needing a mortgage in that area, but I know where I'm not going to go if I do.

Quote:

I got kicked out of a store by a cashier near the front for not having a mask (I don't carry one anymore) yesterday in almost the exact same circumstance , guess what I did, I apologized and left. I did not go to my car to get a weapon and retaliate against some perceived wrong...... You do not have a right to enter a business, they have a right to have whatever rules they want...

Did they have a sign on the door? If not, then while I would have wished them a good day, I would likely not have apologized. I saw some guy fussing about that at a place yesterday and explained the concept of free association to him. The only reason I did was because he was outside of the place yelling, cussing and creating a disturbance, so I was hoping that the police would not be called on him.

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Again, even if the comparisons of "harassment" is similar (its not), once violence is used you lose all moral high ground (on this issue that side has none to begin with, but that is another story....).

Naturally. Now you're getting into committing a criminal act over something that a person wrongly thinks is a criminal act.

Quote:

But, yes we can get numbers of police reports (public records) of violence against employees for enforcing company mask policies. In fact its well documented. And, frequently reported by the news. The idea that this is a rare circumstance is not true. Now, going on a shooting spree is a rare circumstance, usually its just physical assault or refusing to leave the property. But, these happen constantly... In fact this is a well known big problem, even the military warns of it now (in extremist training) and unions are warning of it (that is why there is a push to get alcohol banned from planes by FA unions because drunk people are of course even more likely to be idiotic).

This story is from GA, and I can confirm GA, does not have or has ever had a mask mandate. All enforcement is (and has always been) by private entities (company policy). So your argument of an overreaching State cannot even apply here....

I'm not sure what banning alcohol from planes would accomplish if one could still get loaded in the airport. I'm neither for or against banning alcohol on planes and think it should be a decision of the airline.

Quote: Mission146

I don't know how much Conservatives really focus on the concepts of private property and free association; it probably just varies from person to person. Many seem concerned when the subject matter is their private property, but not so much otherwise. Private property and respect for free association are bastions of the Libertarian.

Anyway, provided the property owner is not violating the law themselves, you just do what they say. I was at some mortgage place last week taking a phone call because I was staying at a hotel room with a friend and didn't want to talk in the room---an employee of the establishment (which I didn't even know was open at the time) came and asked me what I was doing and seemed satisfied with my answer. Five minutes later, he must have decided he was uncomfortable with me walking on the side of the parking lot and came out again to ask me to leave the property---silly, but I just wished him a good day and made my way somewhere else.

Not that I'll ever be needing a mortgage in that area, but I know where I'm not going to go if I do.



Did they have a sign on the door? If not, then while I would have wished them a good day, I would likely not have apologized. I saw some guy fussing about that at a place yesterday and explained the concept of free association to him. The only reason I did was because he was outside of the place yelling, cussing and creating a disturbance, so I was hoping that the police would not be called on him.



Naturally. Now you're getting into committing a criminal act over something that a person wrongly thinks is a criminal act.



I'm not sure what banning alcohol from planes would accomplish if one could still get loaded in the airport. I'm neither for or against banning alcohol on planes and think it should be a decision of the airline.

I agree with all of that. There was a sign on the door that I did not notice, even if there was not they have a right to ask me to mask or leave, so I politely left.

I do not think that there should be an alcohol ban on airlines (even though I rarely drink on planes), but my only point is if FAs want to lobby their employer that is their right, and if the employer changes their policy customers have the choice of following it or being kicked off of the plane (and possibly banned for life from the airline). And, in their view alcohol makes anti-mask people even more violent (which is likely true, since belligerent people tend to be even more obnoxious when drinking). This is purely a private policy being made by (some) airlines. Of course people can drink before or smuggle their own booze in from duty free or wherever, but I guess the thought is at least they will not have more access while on the plane (again I don't agree I am just pointing out it is a valid argument).
Some airlines ban all tobacco use (I am not talking smoking which is obviously banned on planes, but smokeless), Delta comes to mind (this is the most recent airline with such a policy I can recall), I think it is a stupid policy (as it does not harm anyone, and in many cases, is less messy than most people eating), but I respect the policy (even if I now have my own internal policy of nicotine pouches not counting as tobacco products).

But, I do agree conservatives love property rights until it effects them. I personally look forward to the rollout of some of the vaccine tracking apps that some certain companies will be opting into, because I guarantee it will make some people lose their minds when certain hospitality companies enroll. (And, its not even something I agree with, though I have no major issue with it, but the overreaction will make it worth it).

Its really simple, respect the rules of where you are or don't go there.
And, don't be a jerk and argue (or worse) with frontline customer service workers who are following what they are told.

Quote: Gandler

I agree with all of that. There was a sign on the door that I did not notice, even if there was not they have a right to ask me to mask or leave, so I politely left.

Yeah, probably best to apologize just in case there was a sign. I don't really care the mask to and fro anymore as I am vaccinated. I simply choose not to go anywhere that requires me to wear a mask. It's not that wearing a mask is a big deal; I'm just sick of having one in my pocket all the time.

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I do not think that there should be an alcohol ban on airlines (even though I rarely drink on planes), but my only point is if FAs want to lobby their employer that is their right, and if the employer changes their policy customers have the choice of following it or being kicked off of the plane (and possibly banned for life from the airline). And, in their view alcohol makes anti-mask people even more violent (which is likely true, since belligerent people tend to be even more obnoxious when drinking). This is purely a private policy being made by (some) airlines. Of course people can drink before or smuggle their own booze in from duty free or wherever, but I guess the thought is at least they will not have more access while on the plane (again I don't agree I am just pointing out it is a valid argument).

I still think it should be up to the airline to do whatever it likes. I imagine that some people would feel more secure on a flight in which alcohol was not served, though it makes no difference to me. I think anyone with an inclination to violence is more likely to become violent when alcohol is introduced, anti-masker, or otherwise.

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Some airlines ban all tobacco use (I am not talking smoking which is obviously banned on planes, but smokeless), Delta comes to mind (this is the most recent airline with such a policy I can recall), I think it is a stupid policy (as it does not harm anyone, and in many cases, is less messy than most people eating), but I respect the policy (even if I now have my own internal policy of nicotine pouches not counting as tobacco products).

I have no opinion on this particular policy. I fly only rarely and the only thing that impacts my decision is the lowest price for a trip with no switching planes.

Quote:

But, I do agree conservatives love property rights until it effects them. I personally look forward to the rollout of some of the vaccine tracking apps that some certain companies will be opting into, because I guarantee it will make some people lose their minds when certain hospitality companies enroll. (And, its not even something I agree with, though I have no major issue with it, but the overreaction will make it worth it).

Its really simple, respect the rules of where you are or don't go there.
And, don't be a jerk and argue (or worse) with frontline customer service workers who are following what they are told.

Not all Conservatives, but certainly some. I know a few Republicans who fully grasp the notion of property rights and why they must apply to everyone or the entire notion falls apart.

In any event, we pretty much agree completely on this matter.

Some excellent news:

AP: Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

“only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%”

Enjoy the Delta variant, anti-vax dummies!

Lambda variant from Peru may be resistant to vaccines.

It is also in the U.K., Chile and Argentina.

At least the U.S. border is secure.

You’d have to shut down air travel.