First Principles

"Quote: FrGamble
I'm afraid I've not seen any evidence that you are seriously asking why questions but rather are very closed minded."

Quote: Evenbob

What would a serious question look
like, I have no idea what you mean.

I came across this great thread
from a year ago and realized,
even though I asked three times,
FrG never gave any examples
of serious questions to ask when
looking for god. He fancies
himself as an expert is these
matters, can tell me I'm asking
all the wrong questions, but
won't come up with any correct
serious questions when asked
to do so. Why is that.

Quote: FrGamble

Can you name anything in your life that you believe for which you have irrefutable proof?

I think this was one that you never answered. I think I also asked you earlier in this thread if you think your misconceptions of Christianity and the Catholic Church have colored your views and opinions and if you were willing to re-examine them? Did you ever read the parable of the Prodigal Son in Luke's Gospel? That was another question I don't think you answered in this thread.

Quote: FrGamble

I think this was one that you never answered..

Seriously? You're going to weasel
out of telling what serious questions
we should ask when looking for god,
when you claim to know all the
non serious ones? You're weaseling
out by putting it back on me? Do
you think that will work?

Your Church has a had it very easy
up till just recently. You didn't
have to explain anything or give
any proof for your beliefs. Gods
existence was a given, it was
inarguable. And if anyone even
tried to argue it, the were exiled
or even worse, imprisoned. So
you have no ready answers for
obvious questions, there was
zero time given to proving gods
existence in seminary. You had
all been gulping the Kool Aid
all your lives up to that point.

Wow you are a little touchy here. Do you really think no time was given to reasonably discussing God's existence in seminary? Do you really think the Church hasn't had to explain anything in regards to our beliefs? Do you think the evil of militant atheism hasn't had an power or caused untold harm in our world? Do you think there has ever been a time in history when religious beliefs were inarguable? See I am sorry but you are not really asking honest questions or seem interested in really pursing truth. That is just my take on it and I could be and hope to be wrong. There are lots of questions you don't really want to answer and that is fine. I just was pointing out that in the thread you mentioned you refused to answer some important questions in our discussion of faith. Why would or should I continue to ask you more questions?

My last serious question is: why do you want to continue to antagonize me and debate with me when it doesn't seem to do either of us any good?

Quote: FrGamble

Do you really think no time was given to reasonably discussing God's existence in seminary?

I thought it was a given that
everybody who went to
seminary was a staunch
god believer. Are you saying
non believers are there and
gods existence has to be proven
to them? That would be odd.

Quote:

My last serious question is: why do you want to continue to antagonize me and debate with me when it doesn't seem to do either of us any good?

I thought we both enjoyed it.
I don't do things on a regular
basis that I don't enjoy, why
would I. Do you? As far as
'antagonize' you, when you
take the vows and set yourself
up as a moral authority, when
you wear the uniform in public,
you are literally asking for
arguments or agreements.
That's the purpose of the uniform,
to tell people who and what you
are. Do you think a cop wears
the uniform because he looks
good in it? It tells people he
a law enforcement officer, they
can turn to him if they have a
problem. Your uniform says
what's expected of you. If you
don't want to be 'antagonized',
why did you sign up for this line
of work.

Quote: FrGamble

My last serious question is: why do you want to continue to antagonize me and debate with me when it doesn't seem to do either of us any good?

It's alright, if this is what you think. But see how this supports people's thinking that, you are just doing it for yourself?

I've said several times that I have enjoyed your discussions, and I have learned quite a bit from them. I accept that you are just here for yourself, and not others, I'm glad to hear that kind of honesty. I'm here for my benefit as well.

Quote: petroglyph

It's alright, if this is what you think. But see how this supports people's thinking that, you are just doing it for yourself?

I've said several times that I have enjoyed your discussions, and I have learned quite a bit from them. I accept that you are just here for yourself, and not others, I'm glad to hear that kind of honesty. I'm here for my benefit as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am here for good discussion and learning, which I have done plenty of on this forum. At times even from Evenbob. However, if both sides are not willing to admit when they are wrong or their misconceptions it smacks of dishonesty and becomes a pissing contest. I am all for a serious discussion of the truth and honest debate.

He admits to antagonizing me for his pleasure. It is not a pleasure of mine to antagonize anyone.

Quote: FrGamble

He admits to antagonizing me for his pleasure..

Who told you that, it certainly
wasn't me. You're assuming
again.

Don't you find it odd that your
whole world revolves around
a god, he's everywhere to you.
Yet to an atheist, he's nowhere
to be found. I can ignore gravity,
or air, but it's still right there
and I have to deal with it. If
god was real I could ignore him
but he'd still be right there and
I would have to deal with him.

But I can choose to reject the
whole idea of a god and the
result is there's nothing to deal
with at all because he's just a
concept with no basis in reality.
If I was a god person I would
find that perplexing. How can
something be so obvious to me
yet not to others.

You can think the world is flat but that doesn't make it so. The fact that you exist and are alive and search for happiness and meaning is like gravity leading you to God and God acting upon you.

Quote: FrGamble

You can think the world is flat but that doesn't make it so. .

Here is what god is to me. You win
the lottery, but you want it all in
one cash payment so it takes
two weeks to get your $25 million.
Those two weeks are the happiest
of your life, you wake up every
day bursting with energy and joy.
You go to get your money in two
weeks and are told, oops, big mistake,
you didn't win. Sorry.

Where did all that energy and joy come
from, you didn't have a nickel of the
winnings yet. It came from you
BELIEVING you won, it came from you
creating that reality in your mind.

God belief is no different. At some
point you became a believer and
you created a wonderful loving
forgiving god in your mind. You
can pray to him, and ask things of
him, it's great. Just like your life
was wonderful when you thought
you'd won the lottery. You create
your own subjective reality.