First Principles

February 14th, 2020 at 12:10:42 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
How are you going to prove to me that you've found water?


I'll throw you in the lake.
Something you can't do
with god. No amount of
talking will produce
physical verifiable proof
that a god exists.

It would even be on the
road to proof if everybody's
god experience was the same.
But it's never the same with
any two people. That's because
god is a purely subjective
experience and we all create
our own subjective reality.
I prefer mine with no god in
it, you prefer something with
a god.

God seems like way too much
work to me, god people are
always stressed out about
something. Are they doing
the right thing, are they
pleasing god or pissing him
off, are they praying enough,
or praying the right way. Was
that a sign from god, or just
a coincidence. Way too much
worry and stress for no apparent
reason

Why would anybody bring all
that into their life on purpose, when
none of it is even real.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 14th, 2020 at 2:25:57 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
I'll take you to Church with me, but i thought we were talking about ways we can talk to each other and show God exists. If you threw me into a lake how does that prove you have found water right now. Are you saying that no amount of talking will ever verify God exists or does not exist? I would grant you that you cannot verify God does not exist. You have been talking for years and never once even tried to give an answer as to why God without a doubt does not exist. The closest you have come is your gut feeling. I would also agree that if we are talking about mathematical verification than no words will get us to the point of verification of God's existence. However, logic and reason and all the things I have pointed out to you many time creates a preponderance of evidence pointing to God. So how do you verify God's existence - you get thrown into a lake. You experience God and I maintain that the only reason you have not and will not experience God is your unwillingness to open your heart to Him. He loves you and is there for you, please just stop your foolish pride and let go of your false myths. I promise you it is the opposite of stress to know that God loves you unconditionally. You don't have to worrying about pleasing God or praying the right way, He is a perfectly loving Father who loves you because you are His son, not because of what you have done. You can't earn or lose this love all you have to do is accept it like a gift. Jump into the lake because neither myself or God will forcibly throw you into one.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
February 14th, 2020 at 3:59:54 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4943
My two cents:

Why do we care if God exists or not?
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
February 14th, 2020 at 9:48:42 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote:
You don't have to worrying about pleasing God or praying the right way, He is a perfectly loving Father who loves you because you are His son, not because of what you have done. You can't earn or lose this love


So what's the big deal, then. Believe
in him, don't believe in him, we're
all covered, you say. Why give it
another thought. God is like
gravity, you don't have to believe
in it at all and you still get all it's
benefits.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 14th, 2020 at 9:51:50 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: DRich
My two cents:

Why do we care if God exists or not?


I've asked that many times. What's
the point of believing god exists
or doesn't. If he does, great. I don't
see him, but that's his choice, not
mine. If he doesn't exist, why pretend
he does. What a waste of time.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 16th, 2020 at 11:51:46 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote:
You don't have to worrying about pleasing God or praying the right way, He is a perfectly loving Father who loves you because you are His son, not because of what you have done. You can't earn or lose this love


So it's all good, then. He's the
forgiving loving father and
you can do no wrong in his
eyes. No matter what we do
we can't lose his love. Sounds
great, no worries. Why should
we give it a second thought,
then. Why think about it at
all. God's unfaltering love for
us is a given, like the sun coming
up every morning.

Have I got it right or have you
left something out. Something
in the fine print that you didn't
mention, maybe.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 16th, 2020 at 12:30:46 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
So it's all good, then. He's the
forgiving loving father and
you can do no wrong in his
eyes. No matter what we do
we can't lose his love. Sounds
great, no worries. Why should
we give it a second thought,
then. Why think about it at
all. God's unfaltering love for
us is a given, like the sun coming
up every morning.

Have I got it right or have you
left something out. Something
in the fine print that you didn't
mention, maybe.


You got some things right. God loves no matter what but you can definitely do wrong in His eyes. Think of a loving father, you can definitely disappoint him and their is even consequences for what you choose to do, but he never stops being your father and never stops loving you. It is part of the reason that our poor choices hurt our father so much. I can't tell you how many parents I try to console as their sons use drugs and do other things that only lead to hurt and pain for them but maybe more hurt and pain for the loving parents.

I think you can answer your own question. What would you think of someone who abused someone's unconditional love? What would you think of someone who received constant forgiveness and the gift of something so great as life itself and then ignored, insulted, abused, and took for granted the one who loved them?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
February 16th, 2020 at 12:45:57 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
What would you think of someone who abused someone's unconditional love?


Wait a minute, lets get our terms
right.

To define unconditional love is to say that you love someone unselfishly, that you care about the happiness of a person and will do anything to help that person feel happiness without expecting anything in return. In other words, the definition of unconditional love is "love without conditions."

You call gods love 'unconditional',
then you say, wait a minute, there
are these conditions attached. So
which is it, make up your mind.

You say don't disappoint him or
there will be consequences. That
is conditional love, the polar
opposite of unconditional.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 16th, 2020 at 12:51:05 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: FrGamble
..... What would you think of someone who abused someone's unconditional love? What would you think of someone who received constant forgiveness and the gift of something so great as life itself and then ignored, insulted, abused, and took for granted the one who loved them?


I would say "love" is the most over used, over appreciated word in the human language.

Love, like god, doesn't mean the same thing to any two people.

Love should more aptly be phrased, "you are now more benefit to me, than at some other time", the absolute majority of the time.

"Unconditional love? Not happening.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
February 16th, 2020 at 1:05:34 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: petroglyph
"Unconditional love? Not happening.


Exactly. If a gods love were truly
unconditional you would never
have to give it a second thought.
Of course there are a ton of
conditions attached, just like
every other kind of 'love'.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.