First Principles

Quote: Evenbob

Exactly. If a gods love were truly
unconditional you would never
have to give it a second thought.
Of course there are a ton of
conditions attached, just like
every other kind of 'love'.

There you go again. God's love is truly unconditional but I'm amazed that you think that means you can ignore it and take advantage of it. Is that how you think we should respond to someone who loves us in such an extraordinary way? Also you need to ask yourself who is putting the conditions on it? It is not the love given that is conditioned but don't you think one who receives such a gift should respond in a respectful loving way? God isn't demanding that but it seems to make sense doesn't it?

Quote: FrGamble

God's love is truly unconditional

You just said in your last post
that you can disappoint god
and you don't want to do that.
If you tell a kid that you love him
unconditionally, but tell him you
better not disappoint me. Because
if you disappoint me, I'll still love
you, but I won't like it. That is
not unconditional love.

There are a ton of strings attached
to this unconditional love of God in
your religion and you know it. Also
please show me in the Bible where
it says God loves you unconditionally.
I can't find it. I don't mean an
interpretation that might mean unconditional
love, I want to see those actual words used.
Because everywhere I look in your
religion all I see is conditions on that
unconditional love.

Quote: FrGamble

I'll take you to Church with me, but i thought we were talking about ways we can talk to each other and show God exists. If you threw me into a lake how does that prove you have found water right now. Are you saying that no amount of talking will ever verify God exists or does not exist? I would grant you that you cannot verify God does not exist. You have been talking for years and never once even tried to give an answer as to why God without a doubt does not exist. The closest you have come is your gut feeling. I would also agree that if we are talking about mathematical verification than no words will get us to the point of verification of God's existence. However, logic and reason and all the things I have pointed out to you many time creates a preponderance of evidence pointing to God. So how do you verify God's existence - you get thrown into a lake. You experience God and I maintain that the only reason you have not and will not experience God is your unwillingness to open your heart to Him. He loves you and is there for you, please just stop your foolish pride and let go of your false myths. I promise you it is the opposite of stress to know that God loves you unconditionally. You don't have to worrying about pleasing God or praying the right way, He is a perfectly loving Father who loves you because you are His son, not because of what you have done. You can't earn or lose this love all you have to do is accept it like a gift. Jump into the lake because neither myself or God will forcibly throw you into one.

Padre - you cannot verify that an omnipotent, undetectable, pink dinosaur does not reside in my spare bedroom, but I know it is there.

Quote: aceofspades

Padre - you cannot verify that an omnipotent, undetectable, pink dinosaur does not reside in my spare bedroom, but I know it is there.

I believe you, Ace. Can we worship
it and pray to it, because we know
for sure it loves us unconditionally?
No strings attached, right?

Quote: aceofspades

Padre - you cannot verify that an omnipotent, undetectable, pink dinosaur does not reside in my spare bedroom, but I know it is there.

Has anyone else seen it or experienced it? Has it revealed itself to you in any way, written something, performed a miracle, inspired you in some way to be better? Is it logical that a omnipotent pink dinosaur lives in your spare bedroom? I think if you answer these questions you will come to realize you are wrong and I can be pretty sure that you are wrong as well. Sorry.

Quote: Evenbob

I believe you, Ace. Can we worship
it and pray to it, because we know
for sure it loves us unconditionally?
No strings attached, right?

Well, if you do something it does not approve of, it will be disappointed

Quote: FrGamble

Has anyone else seen it or experienced it? Has it revealed itself to you in any way, written something, performed a miracle, inspired you in some way to be better? Is it logical that a omnipotent pink dinosaur lives in your spare bedroom? I think if you answer these questions you will come to realize you are wrong and I can be pretty sure that you are wrong as well. Sorry.

Turn all those arguments inward to your "God" and you will understand my argument

Quote: aceofspades

Turn all those arguments inward to your "God" and you will understand my argument

Has anyone else seen or experienced it?
99% of the world

Has it revealed itself to you in any way...?
The Sacred Scriptures, the creation of the universe, the natural world, life and consciousness, miracles and other unexplained phenomenon.

Has it inspired you to be better?
Every single day.

Is it logical that God exists?
Yes.

Am I missing something?

Quote: Evenbob

You just said in your last post
that you can disappoint god
and you don't want to do that.
If you tell a kid that you love him
unconditionally, but tell him you
better not disappoint me. Because
if you disappoint me, I'll still love
you, but I won't like it. That is
not unconditional love.

I can't believe you wrote that. Do you think that if someone loves you they can never be disappointed or hurt by you? I think the exact opposite is true. The more you love someone the more you feel disappointed and hurt when they ignore you, insult you, reject you, and take advantage of your love. You don't stop loving them if it is truly unconditional, but it hurts, it hurts bad.

Quote:

Also please show me in the Bible where
it says God loves you unconditionally.
I can't find it.

Luke 15:11-32
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Romans 8:31-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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