First Principles
January 4th, 2020 at 11:46:27 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | The world we see is indeed very different. However, if we saw an accident we would see the same thing. Maybe one of us would get the color of the card wrong or if someone wears glasses or not. However, one of us wouldn't see a giraffe if it wasn't there. I think you are exaggerating our ability to change or see reality. What makes the world interesting is not all of us thinking the same thing, but being the unique amazing people we are in the midst of a shared objective reality. You shouldn't be so simplistic in your understanding of why people believe in God. Many people who have not grown up in religion come to believe in God because He is real and so is the same world both of us live in. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 5th, 2020 at 4:36:53 AM permalink | |
Mosca Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 730 |
I thought I read that this was not going to be a place to debate. |
January 5th, 2020 at 4:59:51 AM permalink | |
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 |
No. the fur comment was more to emphasize the similarities than focus on the difference. If you get between the river and the Hippo, you die and the Hippo is not viewed as 'guilty", a murderer can have acted with the same ferocity but in killing or in stealing food he is still reacting to his unique situation irrespective of your desire to impose some over-riding right and wrong. |
January 5th, 2020 at 6:31:18 AM permalink | |
Mosca Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 22 Posts: 730 |
I’m just sayin’. As soon as I read the opening post I knew it was going to be impossible for anyone to avoid turning it into a debate. It was doomed to devolve into the same discussion it always does. For me, it comes down to, try to be kind to other people. And if you forget sometimes, that’s okay, because there’s another moment right after that, where you get to try again. ETA, If I knew the answer to any of the questions, what would change? I would still try to live the same way. Try to be nice. Give small comforts. There’s nothing else. |
January 5th, 2020 at 9:20:07 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Many BELIEVE he is real, big difference. You believe he is real, and that's all you have, belief. I see no god in my subjective reality, nor can you prove he exists objectively. You've tried and tried. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 5th, 2020 at 9:23:39 AM permalink | |
Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
Would it make God real if EVERYONE believed him to be real? That sounds like an interesting thought experiment. Go somewhere where every single person believes the God of Abraham is real and completely avoid any person or venue that says anything to the contrary. The adherents should try it sometime. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
January 5th, 2020 at 9:26:19 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Real in the subjective sense, which is pretty real in many ways. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 5th, 2020 at 9:36:22 AM permalink | |
Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
Real not only in the subjective sense, anything can be, "Real," to one individual person and not anyone else in the world if that person is simply completely delusional. I meant would it make God truly real in the confirmative sense if you were surrounded by people who never said anything to the contrary? Think about that kind of upbringing: Number of people that say God: Everyone you have ever met and ever will meet. Number of people who say No God: 0 Ergo, I would argue that God becomes absolutely true in that environment, just not physically true. But, nobody in that environment would care about physical proof. God would be and would remain absolutely true for that person's entire life, and when the person finally died, clearly the person wouldn't exist to determine that God was not true after all. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
January 5th, 2020 at 11:44:19 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I don't think the number of people believing in something can change if something is true or not. God as a creator is something that even unaided human reason can know. Even when people reject this truth it doesn't change it. Nor does a majority of people believing slavery is okay. Objective truth is bot subjected to our subjective beliefs. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 5th, 2020 at 11:46:07 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I'm trying, perhaps unsuccessfully, to simply ask clarifying questions, not so much debate. I don't think people think enough about their first principles. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |