First Principles
January 4th, 2020 at 7:24:15 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I find this very revealing and helpful. 1) What is a human being? A created living being with a unique immortal soul directly created by God. The physical nature of our bodies may very well be from evolution, but God directly intervenes in the creation of human beings who share in God's reason, will, and freedom. We exist to love, which is to give ourselves to others. First and foremost we obviously need to love and honor our creator and the one who first gave Himself fully to us in love. At the same time we need to love others as ourselves. We are made to share eternity with God in complete joy. 2) What went wrong? We did not use our freedom to love. We sinned. The problem with the world is first and foremost a problem with ourselves. We fall to the sins of pride, greed, gluttony, lust, you know the rest. This is at the heart of the injustices and evils we see around us. There is of course systematic sin but the root of it all is personal rejection of our purpose to love one another. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 4th, 2020 at 7:30:58 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
So is fur the significant difference between an Ape and a Human Being in your view?
So are you comfortable accepting that your statement is wrong? Are you saying there is no meaning to the words we use or that their definitions are just arbitrary and without significance? What about universally accepted things that are wrong like murder of the innocent? We purposely use this word murder to seperate the reality of it from manslaughter, or killing in self-defense or in war. It is universally accepted as wrong do you disagree? Or rape, do you disagree that that is wrong? How about someone unjustly stealing your money or food, is that wrong? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 4th, 2020 at 7:36:45 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Thank you I think this is an important thing to know in order to better understand what we are all thinking. This principle you hold will greatly effect 99% of how we think about life and our world. As it does for me and all of us, sometimes not even realizing it.
I find that really interesting. You don't see anything wrong with our world today, nothing you think we could do better in or change and then a little deeper to ask why don't we make these changes? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 4th, 2020 at 8:22:20 AM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
You are getting into a Hume-ian debate |
January 4th, 2020 at 11:03:32 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
I just threw up a little in my mouth. Good grief, the nonsense humans invent to sell their products. 2) What went wrong? We did not use our freedom to love. We sinned. A meaningless word involving a deity you can't even prove exists. More nonsense to control the uneducated rabble by the priests. Doesn't work anymore as in obvious by the worldwide movement towards secularism. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 4th, 2020 at 11:07:04 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
By 'wrong' what you really mean is it's doesn't measure up to your fairy tale idea of what the world should look like. The world is as it is, how could it be 'wrong'. Better to ask what's wrong with you, and work on fixing that. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 4th, 2020 at 3:46:29 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Bob this is not meant to be a thread to argue and insult. You don't believe in God and don't understand sin, I get it. What I would love to understand is why you come to these conclusions. Yes, I believe the world and our lives are meant to be perfect so I see brokenness and sin. You apparently are okay with the way the world is because it just is? Is that correct? Is there anything you would want to change about the world? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 4th, 2020 at 6:44:16 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Which world, the subjective world that I create for myself? Or the combination of subjective worlds that everybody else creates that we call society. You need to be far more specific when you say 'world'. In your world you create a god, and think that means he exists in the objective world. Of course he does not or there would be evidence, of which there is none. But that does not deter you, everyone's subjective reality must mirror yours, because you think your way is the only way. All this way of thinking will get you in the end is a life of unhappiness and frustration. You have to accept there is no one right subjective reality, just the one that works best for you and lets you live peacefully with your neighbor. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 4th, 2020 at 10:00:50 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | So for you reality and the world we live is subjective and made in your image? For me the world is an objective reality that I have little control over. I certainly did not make up God and He is most certainly real. As real as the world He created and you believe you can make subjectively to your liking. This seems like one of our big differences. I accept the world and reality, you think you can make your own world and your own reality. I truly believe that my way of acceptance leads to much more happiness and peace than yours, but that is I guess my opinion. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 4th, 2020 at 11:17:24 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
No. The objective world is the world we all see. Mountains, oceans, trees, cars. We can verify they exist, measure them, whatever. That is objective reality. Subjective reality is where we live in the objective world. The world I see is slightly (or greatly) different than the world you see. We have had different training, experiences, memories, upbringing. We are enough alike that we can get along in society. The people who have an off the wall subjective reality, we lock away from the rest of us in mental institutions. Subjective reality is why 5 people can witness a crime and tell the police 5 different stories of what they saw. Everything that is perceived in and through our consciousness is subjective reality. And because we are all different, those realities are different. Subjective reality is what makes the world an interesting place. If we all had exactly the same perceptions of the world, we would be robots sharing one mind. Your reality contains a god because that's what you were taught. God is real, even though you can't prove it, he is very real to you. I have no god in my world because I was never taught I needed one, or that there is even a god that exists. I could pretend there was a god, and after awhile I would probably begin to believe it. Like people used to believe witches had real powers, could cast spells and do magic. That was part of their subjective reality and you would never be able to talk them out of it. For an atheist to believe in god, he has to be shown god exists in the objective world, like a Buick or a tree exists. That has not been shown, so there is no point for an atheist to make god part of his subjective reality. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |