The Atheist Thread (Long Time Coming)

Quote: Evenbob

So he thinks there may be alien designers of life somewhere, and not some invisible unproveable imaginary god.

Mr. Spock would call him a ‘Vulcan Idiot.’

The kook thinks it is possible that aliens, that he admits could not have jumped into existence spontaneously, traveled from no closer than 2.4 million light years away and seeded our planet with life forms of their own design.

Let’s see. Assuming the concept negative energy is real, worm holes exist, and warp speed is achievable, it would have taken Dawkin’s super advanced space creatures no less than 2.4 million years to get here, just to dump some genetic junk on our planet 3.5 billion years ago, and spend another 2.4 million years traveling home.

You’d think they had better things to do.

Quote: Tanko

thinks it is possible that aliens,

Far more possible than some spooky
invisible supernatural god that can't
be proven to exist. God is always at
the bottom of every list of possibilities.
The very rock bottom, the 'I give up',
bottom.

Quote: Tanko

Mr. Spock would call him a ‘Vulcan Idiot.’

The kook thinks it is possible that aliens, that he admits could not have jumped into existence spontaneously, traveled from no closer than 2.4 million light years away and seeded our planet with life forms of their own design.

Let’s see. Assuming the concept negative energy is real, worm holes exist, and warp speed is achievable, it would have taken Dawkin’s super advanced space creatures no less than 2.4 million years to get here, just to dump some genetic junk on our planet 3.5 billion years ago, and spend another 2.4 million years traveling home.

You’d think they had better things to do.

We'll likely send probes many many times long before we ever travel out of our solar system. I imagine someone else would to. We could be a dead civilization and our Voyager probes could still be out there, and whatever else we send from now until whenever.

Quote: Evenbob

So he thinks there may be alien
designers of life somewhere,
and not some invisible unproveable
imaginary god. What does that
have to do with anything. We
ourselves will be designing life
in the not too distant future,
does that mean we are gods?

Richard Dawkins does beleive in intelligent design.

Like you said, we all engage in various levels of intelligent design....

It doesn't matter to me what someone else thinks, whether it's Richard Dawkins or Pope Francis. I look at the world I live in, and decide what I believe.

Quote: Tanko

There was no life before DNA.

from what I have been able to glean, you got me, for me to say "life before DNA" [or at least RNA] is misspeaking evidently; there is an emphasis on not calling it life until what you have can replicate. However, I was interested in what chemical processes they think were going on before you could call it life, as this is an essential step. Well, to be clear about it, it is an essential step unless you want to have God start it off from scratch, or, alternatively, have a viable Panspermia theory. 

Quote:

3.5 billion years ago, a bunch of very smart molecules got together and decided to form amino acids, peptides, nucleotides, RNA, DNA, encoded genes, gene enhancers, enzymes,  and carbohydrates, some of which are infinitely more complex than infinitely complex DNA, combine them into self-replicating life forms, and prevent all to this from instantly decaying in an oxygen rich environment.

Maybe I'm being picky too, but for the record the origin of life did not take place in an oxygen rich environment [Tour does not say this]. The atmosphere on Earth became filled with O2 when the cyanobacteria proliferated, the first photosynthesizing organisms that produced it. Prior to this it was considered a 'reducing' environment chemically. 


I got this timeline below from https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17453-timeline-the-evolution-of-life/ ... I abbreviated and truncated it, the complete version is worth a look. 


*3.8 billion years ago?This is our current “best guess” for the beginning of life on Earth. 
*3.5 billion years ago. The oldest fossils of single-celled organisms date from this time.
*3.46 billion years ago. Some single-celled organisms may be feeding on methane by this time.
*2.4 billion years ago. The “great oxidation event”. Supposedly, the poisonous waste produced by photosynthetic cyanobacteria – oxygen – starts to build up in the atmosphere. ... Others think that cyanobacteria began pumping out oxygen as early as 2.1 billion years ago, but that oxygen began to accumulate only due to some other factor, possibly a decline in methane-producing bacteria. Methane reacts with oxygen, removing it from the atmosphere

Quote:

Wasn’t as easy as it sounds.  Nature doesn’t keep notes.  Failure meant starting from scratch.

This is James Tour discussing the Mystery of the Origin of Life [ https://youtu.be/zU7Lww-sBPg ]

I watched this, very good [I suggest starting from 8:30 though] He is very convincing about the seemingly extreme improbability of inanimate materials forming, on their own, what life has evolved to at the cellular level. I'd also say the people he criticizes needed to be taken down a notch as well, however, to be fair, someone presenting a counter argument at the same time is really always best before coming to conclusions.

Quote: odiousgambit

 ...Maybe I'm being picky too, but for the record the origin of life did not take place in an oxygen rich environment

Oxygen was present and is a component of protein. Proteins cannot be made without oxygen, yet oxygen destroys them.

Somehow, those smart molecules knew proteins have to be replaced, and they knew how to do it.

What compelled them to evolve toward life in the first place?

Why not remain in disarray?

Quote: odiousgambit

  ...however, to be fair, someone presenting a counter argument at the same time is really always best before coming to conclusions.

The counter argument would be “chemistry is not indifferent to life, and molecules can evolve toward life”.

Good luck with that.

This is David Berlinski discussing 'Atheism and It's Scientific Pretensions'.

Quote: Tanko

This is discussing David Berlinski 'Atheism and It's Scientific Pretensions'.

Seriously? Berlinski? Have you tried
to read the book they're discussing?
Was it written by the Church? Go to
the comments on Amazon, and read
the ones with one star. Most of them
are far better than the foolish book
by Berlinski.

Here's one of the shorter ones:

"If you are looking for an inaccurate recitation of facts about atheism coupled with a Sunday morning sermons simplicity analysis of not believing in god then this book is for you. The book contains outrageous claims based on over generalizations such as atheists are to blame for nuclear arms when in fact people who identified as Christians actively participated in the development of such weapons. Like many who have a general idea about something they have not thought thru the details enough to understand why their conclusions based on general propositions are wrong. If you want a book written for a church choir this one is it."

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/0465019374/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_paging_btm_next_2?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=2#reviews-filter-bar

Quote: Evenbob

Have you tried to read the book they're discussing?

No. Sounds as though you have. Tell us about it.

Quote: Evenbob

Was it written by the Church? Go to the comments on Amazon, and read the ones with one star.

Once again, you either didn’t watch the video, or you are unable to form a cogent response to it. Most likely both.

You’re the one who started twenty-five threads on this subject. If you disagree with Berlinsky, or Tour, or Meyer, or Newton, or Galertner, or anyone else, then provide a counterpoint. An intelligent one.

This one was memorable:

“The Universe has been here forever”

“

How do you know that?”

“Because it is Obvious”

“So, the Universe has been here forever, because “it’s obvious”.

“Obviously”

As for whether the book was written by the Church:

If you watched the video, you would know the book was written by Berlinski.

He doesn't not mention it in the video, but he is an agnostic.

His book received 4.4 stars out of a five star rating from 422 reviewers.

For comparison, “The Grapes of Wrath” received 4.6 stars and 250 critical reviews.

Ulysses, one of the greatest novels of all time, written by by James Joyce, one of the greatest novelists of all time, received 3.4 stars, with 343 critical reviews.

You can’t please everyone.

Quote: Tanko

No. Sounds as though you have. Tell us about it.
Once again, you either didn’t watch the video,.

Hell no I didn't watch the video,
I read most of the book 10
years ago. My big takeaway
was, he says the universe
can't be eternal, only god can
be eternal. And according to him,
god needs no explanation.
It's just another take on the
'god of the gaps' mumbo jumbo,
who cares.