The Atheist Thread (Long Time Coming)

btw note that I do not try to claim that the Big Bang proves there was a Creator

nor do I try to claim arguments of logic have 'proved' there is one - I'd just like to know how various people here handle the argument, without denying banal truths

Quote: odiousgambit

indeed you are reacting by providing "unanswerable questions",

There is only one real question, and
nobody really asks it. Where did the
universe come from? They don't
ask it because there is no answer
that has proof to back it up.

Did it come from the BB, or did
the BB happen within a universe
that's always been here. Was the
BB just one of an infinite number
of BB's? Has the universe been here
forever?

You really want to go out on a limb,
claim some god created everything.
You don't even have proof there is
a god, let alone that he created anything.
That answer has to be the last one
on a long list of possibilities. The
god answer is the 'we give up' answer,
the scraping the bottom of the
barrel answer in science. It can never
really be asked because there are
an infinite number of theories before
science ever gets that desperate.

I wonder if Bob started this thread and thought he only invited atheists to participate? Not sure the 'metaphysical argument for the existence of God' was welcome? 


But at least he tried to answer, which is more than any of the other evident atheists here did. 

Quote: Evenbob

There is only one real question, and 
nobody really asks it. Where did the
universe come from? They don't
ask it because there is no answer
that has proof to back it up.


Did it come from the BB, or did 
the BB happen within a universe
that's always been here. Was the
BB just one of an infinite number
of BB's? Has the universe been here
forever?

If I ever ran into anyone who didn't feel these are big questions I'd wonder if they were human. 


We are so disconnected from knowing the answers instinctively that the spectacle of there being "something" also is a wonder. Why is there something at all? Yet there it is. If there must be something, why isn't it all chaos?

Quote:

You really want to go out on a limb,
claim some god created everything.
You don't even have proof there is
a god, let alone that he created anything.
That answer has to be the last one
on a long list of possibilities. The
god answer is the 'we give up' answer,
the scraping the bottom of the
barrel answer in science. It can never
really be asked because there are
an infinite number of theories before
science ever gets that desperate.

It is true that scientists are very much on guard against going to the God answer, as you put it. Newton in particular is cited as someone who went to it when he couldn't find the explanation for some things, and so no scientist wants to find out an unsolvable thing for him gets solved later and meantime he gave the God answer. 


There must be a temptation to 'go there' when it comes to dark matter and especially dark energy. For the universe to not just be expanding, but that this expansion is accelerating, can that be real? Yet that is the current conclusion. If dark energy is the answer, it means that energy is being provided, and we are back to wondering how something comes from nothing? So it has to be explained otherwise. 


We know now that matter and energy are interchangeable. To grasp how confounding the dark theories are, imagine if we were finding out that not just energy but matter was appearing in the universe apparently out of nothing? 


No, I'm not ready to declare God is doing a divine intervention thing here either. But I don't think the general public really knows how confounding the whole business is.

Quote: odiousgambit

We know now that matter and energy are interchangeable. To grasp how confounding the dark theories are, imagine if we were finding out that not just energy but matter was appearing in the universe apparently out of nothing? 


No, I'm not ready to declare God is doing a divine intervention thing here either. But I don't think the general public really knows how confounding the whole business is.

I look at it this way. We are still solving problems and finding answers. Many don't involve issues as big as the Universe. Most are things like how to fight cancer, or exploring the unknowns of Mars, much less the rest of the Solar System.

There may be a point where all the greatest minds and discoveries lead to a massive realization that we are all hopelessly "stumped". But I don't see that as yet.

Are you suggesting we are hopelessly stumped?

Quote: odiousgambit

I wonder if Bob started this thread and thought he only invited atheists to participate?

Why would I do that. Atheists are boring.
I have a friend who's an ex priest that
I Skype with every week, who's an atheist.
The one thing we never talk about is atheism.
That we be like talking about why we don't
collect stamps. A very short conversation.

You can only discuss atheism in the context
of a god religion. Without religion atheism
wouldn't exist.

Quote: Evenbob

Without religion atheism
wouldn't exist.

There it is. Things only exist in their relationship to their opposites.

Bob usually gives such great answers to god questions, what is there to add?

"Reality is created by the observer".

One thing atheists have a hard
time with is, what is the purpose
of believing in some god who's
existence can't be proven. What
is the reasoning behind it. My
life seems to be chugging along
just like most believers lives,
except they waste time going
to church.

To an atheist, god seems like
a colossal waste of time. We
don't see the point. It's
exactly like believing in Unicorns,
your life isn't going to be any
different one way or the other.
God and Unicorns are figments
of the imagination.

Quote: Evenbob

To an atheist, god seems like
a colossal waste of time. We
don't see the point. It's
exactly like believing in Unicorns,
your life isn't going to be any
different one way or the other.
God and Unicorns are figments
of the imagination.

I've heard that a larger percentage than average of convicts find xtianity when appearing at their parole hearing?

Could it be that, religion put the con in convict?

Quote: petroglyph

I've heard that a larger percentage than average of convicts find xtianity when appearing at their parole hearing?

It's a fact they will go easier on
you if you found a religion in jail.
Any religion.

Quote: Evenbob

It's a fact they will go easier on
you if you found a religion in jail.
Any religion.

It's kind of ironic that if a criminal is willing to proclaim to a panel that he now believes in an invisible deity, the parole board is willing to reduce the prison sentence. But if a convict were to tell the same panel, that he sees no evidence of this invisible deity, he must serve more time in prison.