Hospital fees rant

Quote: Wizard

That's a good point. I don't claim to be an expert on health care. A good place to start would be to look at what has and hasn't worked in other countries. Almost anything would be better than the three-ring circus we have now.

What is 3 ring circusy about it. For
instance, my brother was ordered
to get a colonoscopy 2 weeks ago.
He got it today, I had to wait while
they did it.

In Canada, the average wait time
is 2 months, but it is often as
much as 7 months. In England
the average wait time is 3 months,
with people literally dying while
they wait.

Who has the bigger 'circus', them
or us. And if my brother had already
showed signs in stool tests that
he might have it, he could have
been tested in the next 2 days.
If you test positive in CA or England,
you still wait months.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/11/nhs-patients-waiting-months-for-vital-bowel-cancer-tests-figures-show

Quote: Wizard

That's a good point. I don't claim to be an expert on health care. A good place to start would be to look at what has and hasn't worked in other countries. Almost anything would be better than the three-ring circus we have now.

FINLAND !!!!!

Extensively documented medical records. Conditions diagnosed get investigated, if an earlier doctor missed it, patient gets compensated. Diet is healthy. Food quality is a legislative goal, no dough conditioners, no shelf-life extenders. No margarine, no Wonder bread, no additives in orange juice.

Quote: Evenbob

my brother was ordered to get a colonoscopy 2 weeks ago. He got it today.

Bet they didn't let him swallow a sugar-cubed sized camera.

Quote: Evenbob

In Canada, the average wait time is 2 months, but it is often as much as 7 months.
In England the average wait time is 3 months, with people literally dying while they wait.

Equipment costs money so do operators. Those who pay high insurance rates in the USA buy a 'head of the line' pass, those who have bad insurance get denied or "scheduled".

A few platelets and the procedure is unnecessary, but that would put a lot of technicians out of work.

Quote: Wizard

Almost anything would be better than the three-ring circus we have now.

On that we can all agree.

Quote: Evenbob

If you test positive in CA or England,
you still wait months.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/11/nhs-patients-waiting-months-for-vital-bowel-cancer-tests-figures-show

That was a 2017 article from one of our lower quality newspapers.

In England, we can take the NHS service and wait in line. We now get to choose which hospitals treat us and if NHS hospital queues are too long, we can use private hospitals and they invoice the NHS. Medical practitioners have a lot of say in timescales which are now far more acceptable.

But you might note that any Brit with the money can still buy private medical care or insurance based private care, which is not subject to long delays. I've done this sort of queue jumping myself. I pay into the NHS. I choose to pay extra to go private and jump the queue. The private hospital takes some of the pressure of the NHS hospital.

SO. What I'm saying is that we have what you have by way of paid care with the underpinning of a socialist system which poor Americans don't have access to.

How long does a financially poor, uninsured American have to wait for his colonoscopy and treatment? Or do they just crawl off and take their chances?

Quote: OnceDear

How long does a financially poor, uninsured American have to wait for his colonoscopy and treatment? Or do they just crawl off and take their chances?

Just as a slightly tangential footnote.
In January, my 90 year old mother in law had a chest pains at home. We called 999 ( your 911) and an ambulance arrived within 10 minutes. Paramedics carried out on-site ecg, confirmed heart attack and on the basis of that took her to the nearest hospital with specialist heart treatment facilities. Within a few hours she had been operated on (stent). Stayed in hospital for a week and then came home with us for some family care. Meanwhile social services fitted some assistance handrails at her home ( no charge) They also assessed her for dementia care needs. M-I-L was never wealthy and she and her husband had just paid into our NHS during their working lives ( him till 65 her till mid 50s ).
Their were no invoices payable for any of this, nor for her follow up check-ups and medication. She's now a nimble 91 YO.
Maybe your US health services can provide better care. But this was an example of the universal care that we get. No stressing about whether we can afford the ambulance or hospital stay. No enduring worries about how we'll pay for follow up medication. Acceptable quality at affordable cost. She could have maintained private health care insurance but the only difference in service would been a more private room at the hospital.

Quote: Wizard

That's a good point. I don't claim to be an expert on health care. A good place to start would be to look at what has and hasn't worked in other countries. Almost anything would be better than the three-ring circus we have now.

I like the system in the UK
We should adopt that system

Quote: terapined

I like the system in the UK
We should adopt that system

don't get me wrong. It has flaws. Our right wing governments have privatised and weakened bits of it. But none of our pols would dare to suggest dismantling it. Actually privatised aspects have improved efficiency of some parts.

Every country complains about aspects of its health care system

as long as a country stays committed to not allowing people to die in the streets, so to speak , with 100% at least allowed the kind of treatment you get in an emergency room, there's only so much honesty attached to a die-hard opposition to furthering socialized medicine. Pols like Sanders and Warren with the notion that "what it costs be damned" do scare me, though.

as far as the UK system goes, it has its inevitable detractors

Quote: sample from the link

Patients in British hospitals are four times more likely to die than in U.S. hospitals, according to an analysis of outcomes from 2,000 similar surgeries conducted by researchers from University College London and Columbia University in New York. Among the more severely ill patients, the disparity was worse; the sickest Brits were seven times more likely to die.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2018/10/01/u-k-s-healthcare-horror-stories-ought-to-curb-dems-enthusiasm-for-single-payer/#39d1b5c73099

Canadian health care is good and very cheap compared to the US but takes a huge bite out of the government budgets. Federal health care spending runs 11.3% of GDP is rising. Most of this cost comes from transfer payments to the provinces who run the health care in their own province. The standards of care and what is included or not varies significantly by province. BC where I live spends about 35% of its total provincial budget on health care.

As a retired couple we were paying $150 / month for our 'FREE' health care. In the last few years costs were cut, first in half and starting in 2020 the plan will be 'free' for most people. This is being primarily being financed by shifting the cost to the employers through a new health care tax.

The system is always stressed. Large numbers of people don't have a 'family physician' since there is a shortage of doctors. Non life threatening surgeries have waits from months to a year or two for knee repair surgery. Waits for an Ultrasound or MRI are usually several weeks, other medical imaging is usually same day. If you have a life threatening medical emergency you typically get very fast, efficient and good treatment. Most people in major centres can get a 'stent' the same day if their condition requires it. Cancer clinics are accessible and waits will vary with the urgency of the patients condition.