Andrew Yang seems pretty awesome

August 16th, 2019 at 2:26:01 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: AZDuffman

No, they did not have a way to pay for it because there is no way to pay for it. .


What they did was, they moved money
from other benefit programs to pay
for this. They took money that other
people were getting to give it to the
program. All they accomplished was
pissing a lot of people off when they
ended it, because they were totally
dependent now on the new money.

You only get new wealth form one place.
You create it. Taxing the crap out of
existing wealth is not creating anything.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
August 16th, 2019 at 2:47:17 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Evenbob
What they did was, they moved money
from other benefit programs to pay
for this. They took money that other
people were getting to give it to the
program. All they accomplished was
pissing a lot of people off when they
ended it, because they were totally
dependent now on the new money.

You only get new wealth form one place.
You create it. Taxing the crap out of
existing wealth is not creating anything.


Like I said, it is no different than taking "free" meth from some guy in a Toyota Tercel. You will be hooked in no time and no way out.
The President is a fink.
August 16th, 2019 at 3:03:06 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
They tested it for two years and the got zero in results, just a ton of money spent. Really, it would not matter how long they tried it as they have been on socialism for generations and people work less and less.

No, they did not have a way to pay for it because there is no way to pay for it. You have to tax the very people you are giving money to. Trying to make money come out of thin air.

The only way it can "work" is a place like Saudi Arabia with a sovereign wealth fund. Even then it will not work as they are finding. Their population grew faster than the wealth. Today the young Saudis get fat off fast food while they refuse to do any kind of real work. Check out YT videos on KSA/Kuwait and how fat they are getting since the 1990s, it is unreal even if unrelated.


First, I accidentally flagged this post when trying to reply, sorry I did not mean to (I don't know how to undo it).

But, there were some positive results.

'The recipients did however report “less stress symptoms as well as less difficulties to concentrate and less health problems than the control group,” said Minna Ylikanno, lead researcher at Kela. “They were also more confident in their future and in their ability to influence societal issues.” '

That is one big aspect that Yang talks about.
August 16th, 2019 at 3:07:37 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: Gandler


'The recipients did however report “less stress symptoms as well as less difficulties to concentrate and less health problems than the control group,” said Minna Ylikanno, lead researcher at Kela. “They were also more confident in their future and in their ability to influence societal issues.” '

That is one big aspect that Yang talks about.


I am also interested in the less needed infrastructure aspect.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
August 16th, 2019 at 3:10:28 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: rxwine
I am also interested in the less needed infrastructure aspect.


Even Wizard said on his last AMA, under an ideal UBI most people would break even (correct me if I am poorly summarizing), so the fact that the control and experiment received similar economic benifits, but different psychological benefits (feeling of security) is not that surprising.

Also, it is not truly UBI, if only select citizens get it as an experiment.

The state of Alaska is a better (granted less money) example.
August 16th, 2019 at 3:14:52 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
Even Wizard said on his last AMA, under an ideal UBI most people would break even (correct me if I am poorly summarizing), so the fact that the control and experiment received similar economic benifits, but different psychological benefits (feeling of security) is not that surprising.

Also, it is not truly UBI, if only select citizens get it as an experiment.

The state of Alaska is a better (granted less money) example.


Alaska is not UBI. It is a royalty meaning wealth is being created. It is not stable year to year so you best be carful if you rely on it to refuse to work.
The President is a fink.
August 16th, 2019 at 3:20:33 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
Alaska is not UBI. It is a royalty meaning wealth is being created. It is not stable year to year so you best be carful if you rely on it to refuse to work.


Yang frequently uses it to compare to the Freedom Dividend.

It is based on oil profits, which all AK citizens are allocated a share (dividend) of profits. Yang wants a national one based on Tech.
August 16th, 2019 at 3:20:55 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
I happen to think incentives work fine to change behavior, but like the people who throw food to birds at the park, if there is no target behavior all you have is birds eating at the park everyday. The same amount of food at the park can be used to actually encourage the birds to do something in particular.

They have even trained birds to pick up cigarette butts and move them to a container by feeding them a small amount of food. Same food as the random park throwers, but targeted behavior. It's all positive too. You don't need any negative reinforcement, just patience.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
August 16th, 2019 at 4:03:33 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: rxwine
I happen to think incentives work fine to change behavior, but like the people who throw food to birds at the park, if there is no target behavior all you have is birds eating at the park everyday. The same amount of food at the park can be used to actually encourage the birds to do something in particular.

They have even trained birds to pick up cigarette butts and move them to a container by feeding them a small amount of food. Same food as the random park throwers, but targeted behavior. It's all positive too. You don't need any negative reinforcement, just patience.
Should teach the crows to strafe the people tossing cigarette butts.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
August 16th, 2019 at 4:09:15 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Gandler


'The recipients did however report “less stress symptoms.


You mean getting free money every
month caused less stress than going
out and earning it? Remarkable!
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.