Democratic Nominee in 2020

Quote: AZDuffman

And they failed miserably. After getting us into 3 wars in the 1900s before you would think they would be better at it. Democrats defunded S Vietnam when they needed help, allowing the north to overrun it. I'd suggest watching "Vietnam" if you have Netflix.





It outright destroyed the Black nuclear family and destroyed our inner cities. It has also given us 50 years of a permanent poverty class.

They failed miserably because of the Republican pullout.

I used to work with some refugees from the South Vietnamese Army who were able to come to America as refugees after being imprisoned in communist camps for their role in the war.

In a retirement speech by a former chief in 2017 (that I still have saved because of the impact on me): "During the Vietnam War, I served as a combatant Ranger. I fought side by side with American soldiers to keep Democracy for my country. Unfortunately we lost the war and I had to be in prison for many years as a Prisoner of War. The last thing I came to appreciate was my immigration visa to come here in this country of Freedom with my family" .....

I know many South Vietnamese refugees in the community here. Many are upset that the war was lost. Though they love America and would never talk negatively about the government (in many ways more patriotic than many Natural Born Americans), when you talk to them about history, they think the U.S. pulling out was tragic and caused many to die (and clearly the North to win).

If Nixon and the Rs. did not pull out, perhaps today we would still have a successful operating base in Vietnam and a secure wall between North and South Vietnam with tens of thousands of American soldiers operating the battlements. And, North Vietnam would still be contained. Of course we will never know for sure, but it worked well in Korea. Sadly, we left Vietnam to be overrun by communists totalitarians, and many American sympathizers were killed or imprisoned for years....




I am not going to get into a debate in the causes for the reduction of the Black family. That is nuanced and complicated. And, I find the topic of Vietnam far more interesting.

Quote: Gandler

Blaming Vietnam in Democrats is about as historically inaccurate as you can get.

Jimmy Carter? He is one President who was not great, so what?

Dude, you're totally showing your age now. Only a twentysomething would be ignorant enough to say stuff like this. 🙄

Quote: Gandler

You do realize Democrats are the ones who tried to keep Vietnam from becoming communists?

Republicans were the ones who scaled back and then pulled out (and allowed the North to overtake the whole country)... Blaming Vietnam in Democrats is about as historically inaccurate as you can get. Democrats spent years and billions trying to keep Southern Vietnam free.....

"But the U.S. approach to the War—all parts of it, political, intelligence, and military—were deeply, fundamentally, irretrievably flawed. It could not win the support of the local population. It could not win on the ground. And, after the Tet Offensive in early 1968 demolished the upbeat fiction in the U.S. that the War was being won, it could not even sustain the will of its own population to continue the War.

The U.S was not simply outfought. It was out-thought."

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/10/09/why-us-lost-vietnam-war

The "Democrats did it" or "Republicans did it" arguments fall flat in face of the truth. The quoted site leans left (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/common-dreams/) but this short article says a lot about the issues in Vietnam. Issues that were not fully addressed before or during the engagement.

Quote: RonC

Only an absolute idiot thinks that all of the economic hardships are going to be attributable to Trump when fifty governors and countless others are part of the equation.

Quote: SOOPOO

The mess is not caused by DJT.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! Let them keep believing that!

After all, these are the same libbies who bombastically predicted this 4 years ago. 👇👇👇👇👇👇👇



LOL!! 🤣🤣🤣

Quote: RonC

"But the U.S. approach to the War—all parts of it, political, intelligence, and military—were deeply, fundamentally, irretrievably flawed. It could not win the support of the local population. It could not win on the ground. And, after the Tet Offensive in early 1968 demolished the upbeat fiction in the U.S. that the War was being won, it could not even sustain the will of its own population to continue the War.

The U.S was not simply outfought. It was out-thought."

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/10/09/why-us-lost-vietnam-war

The "Democrats did it" or "Republicans did it" arguments fall flat in face of the truth. The quoted site leans left (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/common-dreams/) but this short article says a lot about the issues in Vietnam. Issues that were not fully addressed before or during the engagement.

When things start to turn negative that is when you need to keep pushing through not run.

The thing that should separate the American military from others' , is that we should be willing to fight for decades if needed and stay for as long as needed (like Korea and Germany).

Many mistakes were made, and its easy to retrospectively look at them. But having a few bad years in a row does not mean that we should stop.

Quote: Gandler

When things start to turn negative that is when you need to keep pushing through not run.

The thing that should separate the American military from others' , is that we should be willing to fight for decades if needed and stay for as long as needed (like Korea and Germany).

Many mistakes were made, and its easy to retrospectively look at them. But having a few bad years in a row does not mean that we should stop.

What cost would have been acceptable in body bags? In money spent? In politics?

"The U.S. concept of the War was that it was “partisan”—that it was being fought by outside invaders from the North. In fact, from the beginning, the War was an “insurgency,” fought from within the South itself, against U.S. imposed regimes. The insurgents were the Viet Cong."

Very different from Germany and Korea.

Quote: Gandler

When things start to turn negative that is when you need to keep pushing through not run.

The thing that should separate the American military from others' , is that we should be willing to fight for decades if needed and stay for as long as needed (like Korea and Germany).

Many mistakes were made, and its easy to retrospectively look at them. But having a few bad years in a row does not mean that we should stop.

Being willing to fight for decades is just plain stupid. It gets you into what Afghanistan has become and Vietnam was. Wars are won by acquiring territory and driving a stake into the enemy's heart. In Vietnam we paid for the same real estate over and over and over. And it was LBJ who made almost all of the mess.

Quote: RonC

in body bags?

I have a friend who is a financial planner, and he asked if there was some way I could get him to get a grasp on what is happening with the virus. Was it as bad as the press leads us to believe.
He takes me once or twice a year to his country club for a round of golf. First 6 holes are around 2000 yards total. I told him, at the peak of death in NY City alone, that day's worth of body bags could be laid out starting on the first tee, and would end on the 6th green. One day. One city. One disease. That example elicited a "holy shit" response.

Does that help for those in the 'no big deal' or 'hoax' camp?

Quote: AZDuffman

Being willing to fight for decades is just plain stupid. It gets you into what Afghanistan has become and Vietnam was. Wars are won by acquiring territory and driving a stake into the enemy's heart. In Vietnam we paid for the same real estate over and over and over. And it was LBJ who made almost all of the mess.

Afghanistan turned around in many Providences when we left. When we were there in force, the Taliban operated as a guerrilla force. Now they blatantly control territory.

Trump has done some good on this front by authorizing more airstrikes and getting some more troops there (not nearly enough to the levels of before) and now the troops can only take an advisory and technical roles, American troops are not supposed to be on the front lines, and the Afgan National Army is simply not yet built up enough to handle such a complex task of controlling all of these pieces of land.

Fighting for decades is not stupid, in many cases it is necessary. Because like the Vietcong, Al Queda and their supporters (Taliban) know that Americans have war fatigue. And, that is they can hold out they will win. They can never win in an open battle, so they hide and draw things out, and try to cause civilian casualties to cause hatred on both sides..... Being willing to go the distance and never back down is the only way to eventually win (shows them that their war fatigue strategy does not work).

Quote: Gandler

Afghanistan turned around in many Providences when we left. When we were there in force, the Taliban operated as a guerrilla force. Now they blatantly control territory.

Trump has done some good on this front by authorizing more airstrikes and getting some more troops there (not nearly enough to the levels of before) and now the troops can only take an advisory and technical roles, American troops are not supposed to be on the front lines, and the Afgan National Army is simply not yet built up enough to handle such a complex task of controlling all of these pieces of land.

Fighting for decades is not stupid, in many cases it is necessary. Because like the Vietcong, Al Queda and their supporters (Taliban) know that Americans have war fatigue. And, that is they can hold out they will win. They can never win in an open battle, so they hide and draw things out, and try to cause civilian casualties to cause hatred on both sides..... Being willing to go the distance and never back down is the only way to eventually win (shows them that their war fatigue strategy does not work).

What you are saying is Afghanistan cannot be controlled unless a WWII style occupation is done for decades. Simply not worth the cost. Look up "Pyrrhic victory." it is what you are describing. Some places need to be left to rot.