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Happy Easter!
| April 10th, 2018 at 10:59:17 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
What god, the one that doesn't exist? Does Santa exist, or the fact that no fat guy comes down your chimney on Xmas Eve mean he doesn't exist. Asking questions about fictional beings is rather pointless.
I can't find any, do you have a link?
Or why it makes perfect sense.
Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/
Mostly, or I wouldn't do it. Aren't you that way, or are you constantly full of doubt and have to ask others what you should do.
Nope. I always assume people are doing what they want to be doing, because I always am. I wasn't kidding about this. If I want advice or help, I ask for it. I assume others will do the same. I know there are unhappy people, but I give them the benefit of the doubt. I respect their privacy and hope they'll respect mine.
Is that why cities like NY and Chicago had such terrible slums of poverty ridden people in 1900? We were looking out for each other?
You're describing 1900 again. The truth is, there is more help, on all kinds of levels now, than at any other time in history. The comparison is like night and day. The reason there are so many homeless is that for many it's a valid lifestyle, there is so much help for them out there. And they take advantage of it to the n'th degree. Go and look at what was available in 1900. It won't take long, there was almost nothing.
Not because you told me, you avoid direct questions by ignoring them. My point is, you seem to have a different attitude about your own life than you do about the lives of others. Your attitude seems to be your private live is exclusively yours. Which is fine because that's my attitude also. But when it comes to others, you seem to think they should all be an open book. Why is that. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 11th, 2018 at 6:19:09 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Yet, if you remember, it was you who said that God not answering your prayers was on the list of things you seem to think show that there is not a God. So now that I we have come to agreement that for many reasons unanswered prayers should not be on that list for an atheist; is there another thing that is on the list of why God doesn't exist? I think you said it was a long list, what's next?
I think you can do some ghost hunting on your own.
I have no idea what you are talking about here.
Even with the weaknesses of eyewitness testimony, why do you think it is always one of the most important elements of any criminal trial?
I'm not full of doubt, are you full of yourself so much that you don't think that what you want to do is sometimes the wrong thing to do? Do you never ask other people what you should do?
Is respecting privacy and asking someone how they are doing mutually exclusive? If you know there are unhappy people, why don't you want to try to help them be a little more happy?
Are you asking if caring for one another's needs created slums in 1900?!? What created slums were greed and the wealthy not looking out for each other.
Do you mean government programs? Do you think there is more or less help on the level of your neighbors, Churches, Synagogues, and locally run charities in 1900 compared to today?
So do you think the homeless want to be homeless?
Little creeped out, but besides not giving you my email address when have I ever avoided a direct question from you or anyone?
Which is why I've talked about my struggles with chewing tobacco (which I am proud to say I haven't used since the beginning of Lent), my weight, and my discernment of a vocation in a vocation. I don't think you have a leg to stand on here with your accusation.
I don't know about being an open book and don't think I have every said or thought someone should be that, especially on an internet forum. However, I do know how unhappy people can be when they have no one to talk to about their problems, and no matter what you say about yourself - everybody has issues and problems. My concern is that everybody has someone in life they can share life, feelings, challenges, and successes with. That is all. A strange priest or an anonymous friend over the internet is a far cry from perfect but it is better than nothing. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 11th, 2018 at 7:04:33 AM permalink | |
| SOOPOO Member since: Feb 19, 2014 Threads: 22 Posts: 4177 | The new format you guys (FrG and EB) are babbling back and forth at each other is too hard to pay any attention to. You two have made literally thousands of posts that basically say the same thing over and over again repetitively, reiteratively, echo, same, no difference, equivalent, etc...... Neither has brought a new argument in thousands of posts. Neither will change the other person's mind. There have been no other interlopers (except me now) for days on end. EB has already said he likes posting for himself and doesn't care if anyone cares about his posts (obviously). FrG...... why do you continue with this childish back and forth? |
| April 11th, 2018 at 7:20:45 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
It's a good question. I have hope in the power of questions. I think they lead to discovery of truth. I feel like questions might be how I break through Evenbob's shell of not caring about what people think about his posts. I wonder if the right question is asked he will be led to think about things in a different way, even if it is not thinking about God. I just want to see if Evenbob will ever modulate or change his thinking on something. Even something as simple as caring for the homeless like we are discussing right now. I have learned over the years that the direct approach will not work so perhaps something less challenging and more open like a question will do the trick. I would be happy to move this discussion to the PM realm though because I do doubt it being all that entertaining to others. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 11th, 2018 at 9:35:31 AM permalink | |
| petroglyph Member since: Aug 3, 2014 Threads: 25 Posts: 6227 | It's entertaining to me. I even liked it when it was a little more hostile. Some posters are just talking to themselves, at least here there are at least two of you. I've said before these forums are the most religious exposure I have ever had. I think you guys reveal your studied beliefs better when you disagree. The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW |
| April 11th, 2018 at 11:57:20 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Childish, really. These conversations are childish to you. In what way. I'd be interested as to where you heard actual children having conversations like this. And aren't you the oh so superior one to say such things about a conversation you aren't even involved in. Why not weigh in with your views on god and give us 'children' a taste of how an adult handles the subject. (I predict he'll ignore this because he knows he's lost before he begins) If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 11th, 2018 at 1:24:48 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Far far down the list. I do find it amusing that god people keep praying and praying and the results are mostly negative.
So you have no links to that prove ghosts are real, then. I kinda knew that..
You said because atheists can't give testimony on atheism, is why atheism makes no sense. I said it's why it makes perfect sense, how do you have testimony on something non existent. God people have fantasy testimony on stuff they made up. Atheists don't even have that, we have nothing.
Because even though the police, the investigators, and both the defense and prosecution, know how shaky and unreliable eyewitness testimony is, they also know that JURIES love it and it can sway your case. People can't get enough of a good eyewitness, even if it's all fake. Look at your own religion and how much weight you give to personal testimony. I remember converts giving their testimony when I was a Xtion. A good one, somebody who knew how to tell it, would have the whole congregation bawling like newborn babies over the miracles that Jesus had heaped upon their lives. When they got to the good parts people would raise their hands, blubbering 'Thank you Jesus, thank you lord'. Some of them shaking with tears. We love personal testimony even if it's a fantasy of made up balony.
If it was the wrong thing to do, I wouldn't do it or even contemplate it. After you reach a certain age, 30, maybe, if you still don't know the right and wrong things you probably need professional help. What kinds of things do you think happen in my life that I would ever need to ask anybody anything. I've never come upon a life and death situation, like pulling the plug on a coma relative. I don't need to ask about paying bills or yard work taking my dog to the vet or whether I should quit my job and run away. Do most people you know go thru life asking others what to do? That's pitiful.
Because I don't have a huge bloated ego that tells me I know oh so much better how people should be running their lives than they do. I don't walk around thinking, talk to me, I'm so much smarter than you and if you just tell me your problems I can solve all of them for you.
What created the slums was people NOT caring about the needs of others, that you seem to think was so prevalent in the past. You seem to think that in 1900 if you were walking the streets in rags that there was all kinds of 'neighborly' help for you. There wasn't. There is now, a ton of it, and that's why so many are homeless by choice. They can eek out an existence and not have to work and still get assistance.
Here's just three comments: "Many choose to be free of the pressures and norms of work and monthly bills. I have talked with many homeless people at length, all men, and all have said essentially that while it is a hard and dangerous life, they are overwhelmed by life's pressures whenever they try to live up to our culture's expectations. For them, homelessness is the only viable lifestyle where they can feel somewhat at peace internally." "My daughter is homeless in Oakland, CA She chose this life. All of her homeless friends that she has introduced us to chose to be homeless. Because of her we have met a lot of homeless people, they have all made the same choice. We have offed her a bedroom in our home and she chooses to sleep on the streets. She is capable of having a job, she choses not to. She has gone tom training, and passed, for many jobs, she quits them after only a few months in. She tells us she likes being homeless the people are more real. She has never had any psychological problems or been sexually abused. The homeless life is her choice. It breaks my wife’s heart but she doesn’t not care. It is a choice." "My son chooses to live in his car...Crack...Meth....This is the reason my 35 year old son chooses to live in his car. In Palm Springs, CA. He has quite a few associates who rely on his car to sleep in. Perhaps that is how he is affording gas money; charging other homeless men money to sleep in his car. My son became HIV positive just this last Spring. His chosen lifestyle of drugs and homelessness could very well cause him to be very sick. Being an LVN, he knows this. I have always assumed that no one could ever choose to be homeless. My son's lifestyle choice has changed the way I think." For every story of true unwanted homelessness, there are stories like the above. I knew lots of street people in Santa Barbara, every one of them did it by choice. They loved the excitement of it.
Most people don't want help, most don't take the advice they're given. Most just want somebody to complain to. If you want to be that person, if doing that makes you feel wanted and special, more power to you. Personally, I have other more productive ways to waste my time. I like how the zen masters approach the problems of others. They don't want to hear your story, they could care less. If you want their help, you have to agree to do what they say, to follow the regimen exactly. Or keep living on the streets till you die or eventually come to you senses and do the regimen. Tough love, it's the only one that works. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 11th, 2018 at 1:38:25 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Wow, that's not condescending at all. Good grief. For myself, I have no hopes for you at all. You drank the seminary Kool Aid and now consider yourself the moral and spiritual arbiter of mankind, one of many anyway. I could never change that, nor would I want to. It's not my job (as you seem to think it's yours) to change anybodies mind about anything. I post for my own edification, not anybody elses. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 11th, 2018 at 2:29:59 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
The results are mostly positive. You continue to be exposed. Haven't you said that people are all selfish and do what they want, what would be the reason so many people pray if the results are mostly negative? The idea that prayers aren't answered according to how you would like should not just be far, far down the list it should be off the list. It is not logical and it is false. What is the next thing on the list you have to support your atheism or what is on the top of your list?
Really? Start a new thread if you are interested. You have shown over and over that you don't value any evidence that doesn't fit your already established view so one has to ask if it would be worth it?
Very true.
So let me get this straight...eyewitness testimony is so important in criminal trials because it is not reliable but entertaining? Bob, I sometimes can't tell if you are serious or not. It is just better to admit you are wrong about the quality and importance of eyewitness testimony.
Again, it is not just my religion. Do you really think that the testimony of converts and those who experienced Jesus Christ in a powerful way in their lives is all made up?
I would say that after you reach a certain age, 30, maybe and you think that you would never do or even contemplate doing something wrong then you need professional help.
I don't know you are pretty private and don't share much. However, perhaps you could ask someone how to help your wife out who is struggling to find balance between helping others and time for herself. You could for sure ask someone how to have a positive and kind internet presence!
Only the successful and happy ones.
I don't have any of that either but I still would like to help people be happy if I can, is something wrong with that? Does that make me so much smarter than anyone? Why do you react in such extremes?
Specifically the rich not caring for the poor.
You are simply wrong. In the 1900's if you walked around in rags some stranger or neighbor from a local Church or charity would help you out. They couldn't do much for you but give you a very little food and maybe a little clothes and shelter. Today you will walk around all day in rags and not a single person will reach out to you. They will all say like my friend Evenbob, "If he needs help he will ask." or "He choose that life and wants to walk around in rags." or other such nonsense. He can get help if he stumbles into some government shelter and fills out some forms.
Bob, should I claim these personal eyewitness testimonies are worthless or let you do it? In this case I do find them worthless only because you are trying to make 3 cases a universal. You know you can't do that?
Either you are lying or they lied to you. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 11th, 2018 at 3:27:36 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
And you have links to studies that back this up? Because I have studies that show prayers are seldom answered in any discernible way. Lots of studies.
You want me to start a thread about you having no links that prove ghosts are real. Why? Just post a link here.
No no no, they use it because juries are gullible and they LOVE a good eyewitness story, even if it's totally false. Just like Xtions love the good 'testimony about Jesus' story, they could care less if half of it is dramatized for effect. Humans love emotions, and that's what juries and god religions are all about.
I know for a fact a lot of the better stories are a mix of truth and stretching truth to the n'th degree for dramatic effect. I know that it's gotten so out of hand in some churches that it's driving people away from the religion. Some churches have banned testimony, it's turning so many people off.
What's your point. You could ask someone how to be less of a stick your nose in other peoples lives busybody. Will you? Doubtful.
I laughed out loud at that one. Good of you to inject some hilarity..
Knock yourself out, like I said, it's your time to waste. It's why zen priests don't give advice, they know it mostly falls on deaf ears and is mostly about the ego of the person giving the advice.
Specifically nobody, rich or middle class or no class, caring about the poor. You went into debt, they threw you in debtors prison. Beg for money on the streets and you would be jailed in many cases. This society you fantasize about where 'everybody looked after each other' never existed. You might look out for relatives and a few selected friends. Maybe. But for the most part if you were poor you were SOL.
If you were lucky, once in awhile. For the most part there was nothing you could depend on except maybe an occasional soup kitchen or a flop house where you could sleep in a flea infested bed with 6 others and be kicked out in the morning.
They represent a snapshop of what's going on. For every down on their luck homeless story, there is somebody who lives that way totally on purpose. If you think otherwise, you're head is truly stuck in the sand.
I knew most of them for over 3 years, I got to know them and what their stories were. They loved the bum existence, they loved the drugs and the booze and the comaraderie of living in that class of under the radar society. That's why they did it, it was a life of no responsibility. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |