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Happy Easter!
| April 9th, 2018 at 4:29:59 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Thank you. We are trying something new and only either asking questions of each other or directly answering a question that has been asked. No more comments or snide remarks. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 9th, 2018 at 5:43:15 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
Which they cannot do. Nuff said.
Only for things I'm pressed on. Proof would be god showing up and talking to me. No statue weeping tears of blood, no convoluted logic, taking the word of others because they say so. I want the same proofs I have of bluebirds and daisies and everything else. I can't see air, but I can feel it and smell it and compress it to pump up my tires. God answering prayers on a regular predictable basis, but he can't even do that. For the obvious reason.
Not according to him. He realized as time went on that he had talked himself into the priesthood and he eventually talked himself out of it. Everybody who's a priest talks themselves into it, they just don't realize it.
We learned from our mistakes and moved on. This is what growth is, if something is fundamentally wrong, you kick it to the side.
And so did Ed for the years he was in the religious system. He came to his senses and now tells a different story. To an outsider, an ex priests testimony is 100% as valid as a current priests.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
They don't know how to say 'no' and stand up for what they want. They're in the wishy washy middle trying to please everybody except themselves. Make yourself happy first and you'll find ways to work is an satisfying way with those around you. Ever meet a self assured person who was unhappy? I haven't.
My wife. She constantly forces herself to do things she doesn't want to do because she thinks that it makes her look unselfish to her family. She makes herself miserable with it, complains non stop. She wants to be doing what she's doing in a selfish way, but it's all for the wrong reasons. She's said to me before "You just do what you want to do, don't you. I wish I could do that." She CAN do that, she's terrified of what her family would think if she did. She doesn't understand that I don't give a whit what her family thinks of me and I can live like that. She thinks she would fall to pieces.
Nothing but obstacles, until they disappear. Then it's fine.
Again, how do you know what I or somebody would want. They don't say and until they do, it's nobodies business but theirs.
NO! I hate it when people ask me how I am or how I'm feeling. Want to see my wrath, say to me "Are you OK?" You hear this on TV and movies all the time. It's none of anybodies business how I am if I'm not asking for assistance and I'm not dying right in front of them. This used to be taken for granted, saying 'How are you' was a greeting, it wasn't asking for a sit-down to discuss all your problems with them. Believe me, if you just give a person money if that's what they ask for, and leave their dignity intact by not prying into their lives, they will respect you more. If they really want to tell you their story, they'll find a way. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 9th, 2018 at 5:45:12 PM permalink | |
| Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 241 Posts: 6108 |
How very gentlemanly. I've heard it said that (insert god/science of your choice) gave us one mouth and two ears, as a reminder to listen twice as much as you speak. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber |
| April 10th, 2018 at 9:38:29 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
So you don't believe I exist? What about George Washington, do you believe he exists?
What is the obvious reason that God isn't at your beck and call? Do you desire to believe in God or the genie from Aladdin?
What makes you say so? What do you know about the discernment process for a vocation?
I think you may be straying from either asking a question or responding to one here. So let me ask you a question: What is fundamentally wrong with a belief in God?
Weren't you just saying earlier that you have to pay attention to who is speaking because it effects their "truth"? I think you referred to judges having to recuse themselves. Do you think that a ex priest's testimony might be a little jaded or slanted towards certain things?
I was actually trying to point out that if science and logic supports an argument than it is true no matter who might be making it. Instead of attacking the person it is always better to attack the argument if you can.
Do you really think that the homeless man is trying to please everybody but themselves? Do you think it is just a matter of saying "no" and standing up for what they want?
I have met plenty.
I have no idea what you are talking about here, can you explain?
Don't you think the middle ground between both of you would make you both more happy? What if your wife did a little bit more for herself and gave herself a little break at times and if you did a little more for others and cared a little more about others and less about what you want, do you think this would be better for both of you?
Don't you think a lot of people suffer needlessly because of this type of mentality?
I get it. You don't want to talk. When you meet someone and they respond like you do then you let them be. It is not hard to tell when someone doesn't want to talk. However, in my experience when someone acts like you do when somebody asks, "are you okay?" they are in the most trouble. You can't approach it head on because like you said - you will only just get more upset. However, these are the people I pray the most for. Something is obviously wrong, you can tell by their reaction, but they are too hurt or scared to talk about it. I'm not saying this is you but I did want you to know I unblocked you a while ago Bob and wanted you to know if you did want to discuss anything privately I would be there for you. I promise you I wouldn't even mention God if you don't want me to and would be happy to just listen. We all need that at times. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 10th, 2018 at 12:22:27 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
Because there is no god? The god people always want you to play their 'god game', the hide and seek game where you try and find god hiding behind bushes or in clever verses from a religious book, and yes, in rust stains on various things. It's all so silly and tiresome.
It's that way with every profession, you or somebody else talks you into it. No gov't decrees that you become a doctor or a lawyer or a priest.
Depends on what you do with it. If you blow up buses or cafe's because of your god belief, the wrong is obvious.
Whatever it is, that was HIS experience and it's 100% as valid as some other priests experience. There are thousands of priests who have left the priesthood for all kinds of reasons, atheism being one. Every story is valid.
I don't know what this means.
Not me. Most self assured people I know complain very little, they get things done and are happy with their lives. It's the whiners and complainers, the wishy washy ones that never know what they want, that are unhappy.
She does what she thinks she should be doing instead of what she really wants to do. A sure way to be unhappy most of the time.
I'm perfectly happy now. My wife isn't unhappy with me, she doesn't like the dynamic she has with her sisters over who cares for their parents. None of my business. She's jealous of me because she knows I would never put up with any of what she goes thru with her sisters.
Not up to me to worry about it. If they don't want to say what their problem is, I'm certainly not going to pry it out of them or force them in some way. Isn't that one of the tenets of AA, that you must admit you have a problem, somebody else doesn't decide it for you because that never works.
Absolutely not true. Because I don't want to tell you, a complete stranger, what my problems are, that means it's ME that's in trouble? Truly wise people wait to be asked for advice, they don't go bulling their way into somebody's private life trying to solve their problems for them. If somebody wants my help or advice, they'll ask for it. Otherwise, it's none of my business. You have to respect the space of others. Just because they're homeless doesn't mean they need to be devoid of dignity. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 10th, 2018 at 2:24:24 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
So you think that because God doesn't answer your prayers in the way or timing you desire that He does not exist?
So there is not anything fundamentally wrong with belief in God as you previously said? You and I are in agreement that faith in God is wrong when used to do evil.
Every story is valid. Am I correct then in saying you do recognize the value and power of personal testimony? Also do you think it was atheism that causes on to leave the priesthood or rather negative experiences they have had?
Have you ever met anyone who was acting self-assured to cover up real struggles?
It seems the sure way to be unhappy is to have a disconnect between what we should be doing and what we want to do? Is there a way to want to do what we know we should be doing? Can you give an example of the difference between what anyone should do and what they want to do?
Is it forcing or prying something out if you simply ask a question? Is it really not up to you to worry about or care for others?
Nope, it is that you don't seem like you want to tell anyone what your problems are. That usually leads to trouble. I do hope and pray you have someone in your life you can share your problems with and feel supported and loved no matter what.
Would it not be truly wise to ask for advice?
Why is it not respecting the dignity of the person to ask them about themselves and to be interested in being a friend or helping another person out? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 10th, 2018 at 3:08:55 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
There is no evidence for a god, not answering prayers is just one item on the long no-show list.
'Wrong'? Is it wrong to believe in Santa or Leprechauns or unicorns? What does the question mean. Lots of people believe in ghosts, is that wrong?
The kids around the world who testify they have memories of a past life, are those valid? Not very. If you can go and verify those memories using mistake proof methods, are they then valid? A lot more so. Eye witness testimony in a trial is almost worthless. "Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts. Eyewitness testimony is fickle and, all too often, shockingly inaccurate" Personal testimony doesn't hold much weight as evidence without backup verification.
I have no idea. Atheism usually comes later, after faith fails.
Who knows. Better yet, why care. That's kind of their problem, not mine.
'Should' be doing, what does that even mean. The unhappiness comes from doing what you think OTHERS want you to do and not doing what YOU want to do. What you 'should' be doing, that makes no sense at all.
Depends on the question. In the old days it was impolite to ask personal questions, and it still is impolite. Somewhere along the line your business became everybody elses business, when it's not at all. It's rude.
People that don't ask me for it? Nope. If I give money to a charity, people often ask them for help. That's fine.
I want to tell who I want to tell, not anybody who just asks. I decide, not them. Why do you think you have the right to stick your nose in somebody's personal life when you're not being asked to? The homeless guy want's a dollar from you, not your psychological profile of him.
I you want advice, why wouldn't you ask for it. Is this a trick question? The guy wants a buck, I give it to him. Transaction completed to our satisfaction.
Because you're assuming it's your BUSINESS to ask and it most assuredly is not. Back in the day when people had respect for the privacy of another, you never asked personal questions of people you didn't know well. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 10th, 2018 at 3:48:57 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Why is not answering prayers as you want them answered something that leads you to think there is no God?
It was your word. You said it was fundamentally wrong to believe in God.
I would say yes. Lack of evidence to support such a belief as true.
I would say no. Plenty of evidence to support such a belief as true.
I'm confused. Then why do you seem to point to the testimony of atheists you know as so important? Also why is eye witness testimony so important in the majority of criminal cases?
It means what you think in your conscience is the right thing to do or the thing to avoid doing.
Do you think that it is possible that sometimes OTHERS might be right about what they want you to do and YOU may be wrong about what you want to do?
It does depend on the question. Is it not okay to ask people how they are doing? In the old days wouldn't you be considered impolite to not ask someone how they are doing?
So you think that if someone doesn't ask for your help you shouldn't help that person in any way (unless of course it is an obvious emergency)?
I have a responsibility as a human being to care for others and without being intrusive or nosy let it be know that I care and want to help if possible. Don't you think you should find out why the homeless guy wants a dollar before you give it to him? You sound like you are talking about a machine that asks for your money and when you insert a dollar in the machine you feel better, a perfect transaction?!? It sounds awful remote and cold. Again I'm not talking about a psychological profile of anyone. Just a name and what's going on. I guarantee you if you try this along with a smile the person will often even forget to ask you for something because you have given them more than what they were going to ask you for.
You said that the wise man waits until someone asks for advice before giving it. I countered by saying the truly wise man asks for advice when he needs it. It seems like you agree with this.
Back in the day everyone really looked out for each other and helped one another out. Why do you think it is some personal probing intimate conversation to get to know someone's name and how they are doing? It seems to me a modern phenomenon to ignore others and try to get through a day without talking to strangers or other people. That is a sad way to live isn't it? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 10th, 2018 at 5:09:54 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 148 Posts: 25978 |
This is like asking someone who doesn't believe in cars if they like red cars better than blue ones.
You're wrong IF you believe in god, not because you believe. Go ahead and believe what you like as long as it doesn't intrude on me.
Never seen any real evidence for ghosts.
Atheists never give testimony, what would that consist of. Look up the value of eye witnesses in court, you'll see they aren't very trustworthy.
Do you do that, let others run your life for you? I don't.
As a greeting only. I'm not asking to hear all their problems and they for sure don't want to hear mine.
Should I go up to a stranger in Walmart and see how I can help him whether he wants it or not? Think about what you're saying. Look at the intrusion into privacy that is.
If they ask for it. Or give money to a charity that's helps people in need.
WHEN THEY ASKED FOR IT! If you tried to give the average person charity without them asking they would often spit in your face. In fact, when public welfare came into being, many never applied because they were too proud to admit they needed it. That's how far we've gone in the other direction. Now it's just fine to stick your nose in and 'help' people if they want' it or not. Speaking to all this, I've known you since 2012 and we've exchanged thousands of comments, including PM's. I've asked you personal questions in PM's that you've totally ignored. I know little about you because you play it so close to the vest. Why is that, when you seem to want everybody else to tell you their life story. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 10th, 2018 at 8:14:33 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
No, it is asking if because God doesn't answer your prayers if that means He doesn't exist?
There is plenty.
Good question. It is another reason why atheism doesn't make sense.
I like watching the show "48 hours". The case is locked up once they have a eye witness that can identify someone as doing the crime. It is one of the most important parts of every criminal trial. Do you disagree? Can you cite any sources that say eye witnesses are not important?
I don't let others run my life for me. However, I sure as heck listen to what others give me as advice. I know I am not perfect and some of the things I want to do lead me into big problems. Do you never listen to what others give you as advice? Do you think you are always right about what you want to do is the best thing for you?
Think about the absurd argument you are making. You know that is not what I mean. You originally asked me about a homeless man obviously down on his luck who needs more than a buck, needs a reminder that he is a precious human being. Now you paint me as accosting people at Walmart about how I can help them. Do you see the difference between talking to a homeless person and running up to a stranger in a store?
Back in the day people were neighborly and looked out for one another. They anticipated people's needs and even before they asked for it people would go out of their way to help.
No, I am in the minority here. Most people now a days accept your worldview and never want to get involved in anyone's life if they can help it. We go around ignore each other and people suffer greatly because nobody is willing to stick out their neck to help even when there is an obvious need. We are hurting as a society because of your mentality of trying to just do what we want and avoiding helping others.
You know me and who I am, you have somehow seen pictures of me and I have shared many personal things with you and the forum. I have no idea who you are, where you are from, or anything other than maybe your name is Bob. Do you really think I know more about you than you know about me? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |