A vocation in a vocation

Quote: FrGamble

It is on anyone making a definitive claim to produce evidence.

The very lack of evidence of a god IS the
evidence for his non existence. If I were
to claim I was abducted by space aliens,
but had zero proof, you would be well
within your rights not to believe a word
of it. My total lack of evidence is proof
enough for your non belief.

Quote: Evenbob

The very lack of evidence of a god IS the
evidence for his non existence.

This is a textbook logical fallacy. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It could be that you just can't see or don't understand the evidence, which is obviously the case here. I gave you a whole list of things and you completely ignored it as usual. You are clearly not an atheist you are just a God-denier who for no reason at all decided to not believe there is a God because you don't want there to be. It gets even worse because then you use your own personal unsubstantiated denial to definitely claim there is no God and anyone who says there is a God is just imagining it. The atheists I know and have read heroically struggle and wrestle with the evidence for God and acknowledge that in the face of some evidence they cannot overcome it is not enough to convince them. They really land on a more agnostic position which you avoid choosing instead to struggle in your little dingy rowing against the tide of knowledge and truth.

Quote: FrGamble

This is actually a requirement. You have to go multiple times to try it out for extended period of time. This is wise because it helps you determine if you are called to that type of life and it also gives you a chance to know the community and for them to know you. It might not be a good fit.

Very sensible.

Quote:

In regards to the Biblical verses one can look at the story of Elijah or John the Baptist who sort of removed themselves from the main way of life and drew people out to them to repent, learn about the Lord, and be baptized. You can also see in the Acts of the Apostles the earliest Christian communities lived together and shared all that they had. Finally, people often quote the teaching of Christ about poverty, chastity, and charity. They see the monks living a radical form of these virtues called the Evangelical Counsels. It is important to note that no order I know of is strictly contemplative. They all do some kind of work or service. Some are much more active than others. For example some monasteries run schools, give retreats, run parishes, serve as chaplains to prisons or hospitals, make caskets, beer, bread, etc.

John the Baptist was out there baptizing people and eating locusts of wild honey. I don't get the impression he went to a castle to pray for hours at a time. He seemed like a "can do" kind of guy. Same with all the apostles. I would call them missionaries, not monks.

Thanks for clearing up my mental image of a monk, which was an old man with a long beard who lived with similar people in a castle on a small island in Greece, never seeing people from the outside world. Then again, I also knew of Mother Theresa, the nun. If you were one of these more active-in-the-community monks, wouldn't it not be a big difference from what you do now?

Also, out of curiosity, who is higher in rank, a priest or a monk?

Quote: Evenbob

The very lack of evidence of a god IS the
evidence for his non existence.

Nobody has ever proven I'm not Jesus, thus it serves as evidence that I am.

Go and sin no more.

Quote: Wizard

Also, out of curiosity, who is higher in rank, a priest or a monk?

After you answer this one, are monks denominational? I know the Eastern religions have monks, and it seems more of them. How do they all relate to each other? If they do at all of course.

Quote: Wizard

Also, out of curiosity, who is higher in rank, a priest or a monk?

That is a very interesting question. According to Canon Law of the Church the monk is considered a "higher calling". The upshot of this is that if an active priest wanted to become a monk the bishop may hate the idea of losing a priest but in the long run he can't stop the priest from pursuing that vocation.

Quote: AZDuffman

After you answer this one, are monks denominational? I know the Eastern religions have monks, and it seems more of them. How do they all relate to each other? If they do at all of course.

Another great question that will take me quickly out of my depth. I will say that the first distinction between monks (and friars, nuns, sisters, brothers) is their religious order. This is the flavor of their spirituality and also to a large degree determines how their day is lived and what traditions are kept. The toughest most rigorous order which has the distinction of being the only one to have never gone through a reform is the Carthusians. Often sometimes considered the loosest or most liberal are the Jesuits.

In these orders there are distinctions that usually arise from the different reform movements. The Franciscan order is the conventuals, the friars minor, the primitive observance, and some other ones. The Benedictines usually trace their large groups from the first monasteries that started many other monasteries. The Swiss line, the German line, the Italian line, etc. In these cases there is not a geographical restriction. Some orders do have provinces or areas and they are usually very big.

Quote: FrGamble

This is a textbook logical fallacy. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Really? Again we have this discussion?

Absence of Evidence IS Evidence of Absence

"That is the situation with the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god. Until recent times, absence of evidence for his existence has not been sufficient to rule him out. However, we now have enough knowledge that we can identify many places where there should be evidence, but there is not. The absence of that evidence allows us to rule out the existence of this god beyond a reasonable doubt."

That's why atheists can now comfortably
say that god doesn't exist. We always
could say it with authority, but now science
has caught up..

Quote: Evenbob

Absence of Evidence IS Evidence of Absence

No matter how many times you say it or how emphatically you say it, the fact is it is wrong.

Quote:

That's why atheists can now comfortably
say that god doesn't exist. We always
could say it with authority, but now science
has caught up..

What in the world could you possibly base your statement on that would allow you any degree of authority that there is no God? Science has caught up to Theism and left the broken and bereft of logic notion of atheism in its wake. Please I beg of you show me these places where you say there should be evidence but isn't. Where you hoping for a big neon sign? You can comfortably say that God doesn't exist as long as you are comfortable holding onto to an idea that is not supported by fact or evidence.

John 14:12, Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do..."

So, FrGamble, we know the miracles Jesus performed. When are going to do some of that?

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