The Holy Trinity

Quote: Evenbob

You don't want to go down that road.
The Church wants it all. They want
us to totally buy into the supernatural;
walk on water, virgin birth, magic
tricks with fish and wine, raising the
dead.

And at the same time they want to
claim their religion is both logical
and rational. If you let FrG suck you
into that conversation, like I did, you
will find yourself saying Huh? and
What? and No Way! a lot, it's really
not worth it. The best thing to do
is just smile and nod and slowly
back out of the room and be glad
you left with your sanity intact.

I can't escape - I am enjoying the banter in here too too much

Quote: aceofspades

We are certainly in agreement that the less scientifically advanced a culture is, the more they attempt to explain the "inexplicable" through "God(s)"

We are not in agreement here at all.

Quote:

But, how do you know my dinosaur isn't real, after all, he is invisible, inaudible and undetectable so you have no way of ever proving to me he does not exist

If he is the first cause of all existence then he is knowable through creation itself. If he is not then as I've told you before I won't believe until he roars, becomes visible, or leaves a footprint. I would recommend you stop worshipping him too if you have no real evidence he exists. Like an atheist you seem to believe in something on blind faith, that is always a bad idea!

Quote:

Knowing that a man named Jesus existed in the Middle East 2,000 years ago and knowing he is "God" are two entirely different things

Here we are in complete agreement.

Quote: aceofspades

If things don't create themselves, what created "God"?

God is a non contingent being, meaning that His reason for existence is not dependent on anything else. He is the source and foundation of all that exists. This is a necessary being to avoid the impossibility of an actual infinite regress. This means God is eternal, without beginning or end. If you pay attention to my agreement I've always said, "anything that begins to exist has a cause". God is not a thing that was created or began to exist, God is the cause of all that began to exist. However, your good comment shows that we are in agreement that contingent things, including the universe itself don't create themselves.

Quote: FrGamble

We are not in agreement here at all.

Ace did to you what you always
do to me, say you see I understand
and am in agreement with you,
when you know damn well I'm
not. How does it feel..

Quote: FrGamble

God is a non contingent being, meaning that His reason for existence is not dependent on anything else. .

That's as reasonable as saying Peter Pan
can fly because of pixie dust. You just
make up facts to fit your narrative,
who can argue with fantasies. This used
to work when the priests were the ones
in authority, anything they said was
believed. Oh how times have changed.

Quote: Evenbob

Ace did to you what you always
do to me, say you see I understand
and am in agreement with you,
when you know damn well I'm
not. How does it feel..

It is a normal way people discuss things. Finding common ground and making sure each other's points are understood.

Quote: Evenbob

You just
make up facts to fit your narrative,

No Bob that is you.

The obvious need for a non-contingent being goes back to Aristotle. It is pretty clear and self-evident if you think about it. I think I've asked you this before but I'll try again: if you see a long train of moving railroad cars, so long you can't see the end or beginning, can you know for sure that there is either something pushing or pulling these cars?

The only fantasy and made up facts around here come from you.

Quote: aceofspades

Padre - can you prove he is not?

We all know that your dinosaur "is not" Ace. Science has proven and knows that all dinosaurs are extinct. Are you sure it isn't a gila monster?

A bit off topic, but in the last Jurassic Park movie there was an invisible dinosaur. Maybe invisible isn't the proper term, but, as I recall, they spliced in some chameleon DNA in creating it and it escaped its cage by blending into the wall. When they opened the door to look for it, he simply quietly walked out unnoticed. Then, of course, mayhem ensued.

Quote: kenarman

We all know that your dinosaur "is not" Ace. Science has proven and knows that all dinosaurs are extinct. Are you sure it isn't a gila monster?

This dinosaur is a non-contingent being