The "problem" of evil

Quote: rxwine

You make the same rationale of a serial abuser. Or a serial rapist. Or anyone who claims other people did things to themselves because they didn't follow the abuser's rules.

Your god is setting the conditions and calling the fouls as he sees fit. It's not a fair game and it's not free will.

I try so hard to not get upset with these posts (I know I don't always do a good job with dealing with Evenbob), but this post really troubles me. God sets the conditions that we all want to live anyway. Be truthful, kind, compassionate, care for the poor, control your emotions and passions, be hard working, etc. etc. These are the very things that make us better human beings. God is not setting some arbitrary rules that will diminish or hurt us like a serial rapist or other ridiculous comparison. God is setting the conditions not as He sees fit but as we see fit, it is all about helping us to be good people. It is a fair game and it is your free will that you can follow your conscience and what you know is right (which also happens to be God's will) or you can use your freedom to be a serial rapist or abuser and treat other people as objects for your pleasure and use them. If you do this do not be surprised if your life on earth is miserable and that you receive the justice of what you chose during life for all of eternity.

Quote: rxwine

Anyway, FrGamble not sure how many times I see you making excuses for your god that no normal person would make in other circumstances.

I think you should at least extend the courtesy to the rest of us human beings.

Like someone tells you they drove by someone in a lake who looked to be drowning.

You ask them if they stopped to try to help.

"No, looked like they fell through thin ice. I think they didn't make sure to check how thick the ice was. They brought it on themselves, I didn't do anything. Pretty sure they drowned."

FrGamble "Okay, fine. You are blessed. God sometimes saves people, then sometimes he lets them drown. You did the right thing."

This reminds me of a good joke. Did you ever hear about the guy who was drowning in a flood and he prayed that god would save him. First a guy came by in a boat and said, "get in". The man's response was that he was waiting for God to save him. Next a group of dolphins came by to carry him to safety but he wouldn't let them insisting that God was going to save him. A helicopter came by and lowered a ladder but he refused claiming God was going to save him. The guy then died. When he got to Heaven he asked God, "Why didn't you save me?" God said, "what do you want? I sent a boat, dolphins, and a helicopter?"

Quote: Face

But nowhere in their culture did there exist sin.

It seems like the great little story you shared makes out selfishness to be a sin that carries along this punishment from nature of shedding all the leaves. These stories seem to teach that selfishness, boastfulness, pride, etc. are sins or immoral behavior that will get us into trouble.

Quote: FrGamble

These stories seem to teach that selfishness, boastfulness, pride, etc. are sins

That they're offenses against god? No they
don't. Having pride or boasting are common
human traits, everybody does it once in awhile.
It's none of your business if they do boast or
exhibit pride, why would it be. This is why
religion is so resented, always sticking your
nose where it doesn't belong.

Quote: FrGamble

This reminds me of a good joke. Did you ever hear about the guy who was drowning in a flood and he prayed that god would save him. First a guy came by in a boat and said, "get in". The man's response was that he was waiting for God to save him. Next a group of dolphins came by to carry him to safety but he wouldn't let them insisting that God was going to save him. A helicopter came by and lowered a ladder but he refused claiming God was going to save him. The guy then died. When he got to Heaven he asked God, "Why didn't you save me?" God said, "what do you want? I sent a boat, dolphins, and a helicopter?"

Heard it.

So, how'd you explain the stillborn baby to the parents in these terms? They missed something right? God sent them the answer and they screwed up and their baby is dead. Again, god not at fault because the parents failed to see the help.

Nice.

Um...this was in response to your ridiculous idea that it was okay to pass by a drowning person because God would take care of it. Thanks for your concern for the parents we are working through it, they are a really good couple.

God lets babies die and people drown. So, it must be good to do so even if you have the power to intervene.

Why should I do any different?

I didn't drown them or kill the baby. It's all good. I just didn't intervene, so not my fault. I should be sainted.

In fact I may make it a habit to stop and observe suffering without helping anyone even if I can --LIKE GOD.

if it's not god's fault for not helping, it certainly can't be mine. I am much less powerful.

Quote: rxwine

God lets babies die and people drown. So, it must be good to do so even if you have the power to intervene.

I think you are not looking for a God, but rather some kind of superhero. They don't exist, but God does.

Quote:

Why should I do any different?

Because God does intervene as a friend as a human being who loves another person. While you might not be able to leap tall buildings, you can do this.

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In fact I may make it a habit to stop and observe suffering without helping anyone even if I can --LIKE GOD.

There is no one who suffers that God does not help. I don't know what you mean? Do you mean make all the problems magically go away. No God does not do that, neither can you. Maybe you could really help like God does do.

Quote: FrGamble

There is no one who suffers that God does not help. .

He helped the people waiting in line
for the 'showers' at the death camps?
Really? The survivors would disagree
with you.

Quote: Evenbob

He helped the people waiting in line
for the 'showers' at the death camps?
Really? The survivors would disagree
with you.

FrGamble at all costs must say his god is good even if he has to disregard suffering, misery and even facts themselves.