Simple question?

The documents of the second vatican council, in case anybody is interested.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm

I am going to hold any further comments for now.

Quote: Dalex64

The documents of the second vatican council, in case anybody is interested.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm
I am going to hold any further comments for now.

Is this supposed to give you the creeps?
That's the effect it's having on me.

"In order to keep the Gospel forever whole and alive within the Church, the Apostles left bishops as their successors, "handing over" to them "the authority to teach in their own place." This sacred tradition, therefore, and Sacred Scripture of both the Old and New Testaments are like a mirror in which the pilgrim Church on earth looks at God, from whom she has received everything, until she is brought finally to see Him as He is, face to face.."

Quote:

2. This Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to
religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from
coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human
power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary
to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in
association with others, within due limits.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651207_dignitatis-humanae_en.html

The problem here is the difference between the theory and the practice, and the lack of explanation of what "within due limits" means, and who sets them.

I might also point out it doesn't define what counts as a religion.

Elsewhere (not necessarily in that document), it looks down upon the other religions, pretty much calling them misguided.

They also talk about the movement towards religious reunification, which is clear that they think is a great idea as long as it involves everyone else returning to the fold.

I was going to post something from the creationists on geocentrism, as to not just pick on catholics. Turns out, it looks like most of them now place the milky way at the center of the universe, and accept the motion of the earth and the sun. At least that is the case on creationwiki, I think it was.

"no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary
to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in
association with others, within due limits."

This is a duplicitous statement. 'Within due
limits' cancels the rest of the sentence. It's
like 1956 in Mississippi.

'All Negro's are allowed to use any public
restroom or any public drinking fountain,
unless marked otherwise."

The last three make the rest of the sentence
unneeded. Everything was marked in 1956.

Did you know that the saints in heaven, being face to face with god, lose their free will and the ability to sin?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeccability
I guess they aren't as fortunate as the angels, who retain their free will and ability to betray god.

Quote: Dalex64

Did you know that the saints in heaven, being face to face with god, lose their free will and the ability to sin?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeccability
I guess they aren't as fortunate as the angels, who retain their free will and ability to betray god.

I'm starting to feel an overload of useless
information. Utterly absolutely useless info,
unless you've drank the Kool Aid. Made up
useless information is even more insidious
than regular UI.

Quote: Dalex64

Did you know that the saints in heaven, being face to face with god, lose their free will and the ability to sin?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeccability
I guess they aren't as fortunate as the angels, who retain their free will and ability to betray god.

Oh boy,...First of all the saints in Heaven do not lose their free will. They are so completely in communion with God that they cannot sin not because they are unable to but because there is no desire to. You also have the angels and the nature of their free will wrong as well. They are spiritual beings outside of time and space so their free will is given at the moment of creation. Since they can see the future and all of time they use the gift of their free will once - to serve God and His loving plan for all of creation or to serve themselves and love only themselves above all creation. Once this decision is made they cannot change it, but again it is not because they lost their ability to freely choose, it is just that the completeness of their choice with all the knowledge they posses is for all eternity.

Quote: FrGamble

Since they can see the future and all of time they use the gift of their free will once -

Ah, every dictator's dream: one person, one vote, one time.

Quote: FrGamble

Oh boy,...First of all the saints in Heaven do not lose their free will. They are so completely in communion with God that they cannot sin not because they are unable to but because .

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Is your
head completely crammed with useless
non productive non instructive pointless
made up shuck and jive like this? How
do you stand it, dude. I mean, c'mon..

You really only need to know the fundamental truth. God is love and has created us out of love, we have fallen and God's love heals us and brings us into relationship with Him as Our Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit guides our lives into truth, holiness, goodness, peace, faith, love, and hope now and into eternal life. If you know this the rest follows.