Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

Enter YHWH and the person of Jesus Christ.

Only as a myth, to give it a personality
and link us directly to it as a father
figure who loves and punishes. It's
just another human attempt to make
everything in the universe revolve
around us.

Quote:

It very much does matter.

Only if you think it does. Just like
everything else, it only has as much
power over you as the power you
give it.

Quote: FrGamble

It is exactly the opposite. Religion fills us with wonder and inspires in us scientific inquiry, beautiful works of art, and the deepest philosophical questions. I think you are talking about atheism which stunts thought by just declaring everything ultimately meaningless and accidental. Atheism followed to its logical conclusion is to say these things ultimately are not worth thinking about; there is no real truth, no objective good, and the best thing you can do is stay warm and well fed. Disgusting if you ask me and removes the process of thought from the non-believer. Thank God I don't think anyone, especially the good and smart atheists like we find on this board really take it that seriously.

That is not atheism followed to its logical conclusion, that is your strawman followed to a conclusion.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god, or for some people an active disbelief in god. It is not a lack of belief in a meaningful life, and it is not a statement that life is just an accident and lacks meaning.

Belief in god is not necessary to lead a meaningful life, even if god is real.

If god isn't real, then belief in god isn't necessary, because people lead meaningful lives whether or not they think god is real. Logically, if you believe in god and lead a meaningful life and god isn't real, you still lead a meaningful life.

In closing, let me rephrase my opening sentence: nice strawman.

Quote: Dalex64

In closing, let me rephrase my opening sentence: nice strawman.

Very nice.

It would be a shame if someone were to huff and puff and.... Oh, I'm too late again :)

Quote: FrGamble

Atheism followed to its logical conclusion .

Atheism only has a logical conclusion if
you have a rigid religious agenda like
you do. You see everything thru the
narrow tunnel vision of your religion,
it filters everything to see if it fits and
if it doesn't, you reject it. Kinda like
being in a prison of faulty ideas and
conclusions. I don't know how you
stand it.

Quote: Dalex64

That is not atheism followed to its logical conclusion, that is your strawman followed to a conclusion.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god, or for some people an active disbelief in god. It is not a lack of belief in a meaningful life, and it is not a statement that life is just an accident and lacks meaning.

Belief in god is not necessary to lead a meaningful life, even if god is real.

If god isn't real, then belief in god isn't necessary, because people lead meaningful lives whether or not they think god is real. Logically, if you believe in god and lead a meaningful life and god isn't real, you still lead a meaningful life.

In closing, let me rephrase my opening sentence: nice strawman.

Again nobody is saying atheists can't live a meaningful life. However, this is in spite of their atheism not because of it. The consequences of not believing in God cannot be avoided, even though we all want to. It is not a strawman it is the logical consequences of atheism. Can you deny that if there is no God then there is no ultimate meaning to life besides whatever we want to make up on our own? Do you deny that without a God then we are all accidently here and destined to nothingness? Believe me I feel your pain I wouldn't want to believe this either but I don't see why you say this is a strawman final conception of atheism. It might be true as people say all the time, "just because we all wish there was a God and meaning and eternal life does not make it so." However, the opposite world view is so abhorrent I think only a handful of committed, honest, and very strong and smart atheists like Sartre really dealt with and accepted the nauseating logical conclusions this would lead on to.

Quote: FrGamble

Can you deny that if there is no God then there is no ultimate meaning to life besides whatever we want to make up on our own? Do you deny that without a God then we are all accidently here and destined to nothingness?

I don't deny any of those things, and in fact the "whatever we want to make up on our own" part is why people invented gods and religions.

Quote: FrGamble

Again nobody is saying atheists can't live a meaningful life.

What would it take for you to stop saying nobody is saying what you're saying?

Probably people really reading and paying attention to what all of us are trying to say rather than hoisting upon them what they would like the other person to say; that is what it should take for me to stop saying that.

Quote: FrGamble

Probably people really reading and paying attention to what all of us are trying to say

And how do you know they are not?

Quote: FrGamble

Probably people really reading and paying attention to what all of us are trying to say rather than hoisting upon them what they would like the other person to say; that is what it should take for me to stop saying that.

We all judge people by how we are. Some people can step outside themselves (figuratively, not literally) and see the world from a different perspective. some can't. You can't. Or you don't want to. You keep trying to figure out how atheists live a religious life according to Jesus, when it's effingly, patently obvious we do not. What is not so obvious, but is as true, is many of us, perhaps most, don't want to.