Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

This is indeed one thing Jesus and the New Testament do spend a lot of time on. Marriage, its importance and what it is. Jesus is crystal clear on the nature of marriage in the Gospels. While you will not seeing wailing at what the civil world may think about marriage I do often wonder how so many of our protestant brothers and sisters seem to have no problem with divorce when Jesus could not have been clearer. I mean this and the Eucharist are some of the clearest teachings of Jesus Christ and the most historically held by all Christians, I'm with you I don't believe it sometimes that not all Christians hold this.

So now will you answer about 1 Corinthians chapter 7, where Paul is telling the Corinthians that it is better not to marry, and to follow his example, be like him, and not marry? Jesus wasn't married either, was he?

It looks like he is telling them that only if they lack self control and rape their virgin should they marry them.

I have to quit clicking on articles at Yahoo.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2016/0227/Why-top-Vatican-cardinal-will-now-testify-about-sex-abuse-in-Australia

From the article: "Survivors of clergy sex abuse and their advocates are dismayed by a document for new Catholic bishops which suggests they do not need to report abuse to legal authorities, released this month after being used at a September training session for new church leaders."

The catholic church is still protecting pedophiles to this very day. Plenty more in the article.

"The Christian Science Monitor reported that Pope Francis issued new guidelines in early February for reporting sex abuse by Catholic priests." So after two thousand years of claiming to be God's representative on earth, the Pope is putting out some guidelines about "reporting" sexual abuse by the clergy. Two thousand years.

Quote: Dalex64

So now will you answer about 1 Corinthians chapter 7, where Paul is telling the Corinthians that it is better not to marry, and to follow his example, be like him, and not marry? Jesus wasn't married either, was he?

It looks like he is telling them that only if they lack self control and rape their virgin should they marry them.

The main point of Chapter 7 is Paul giving his advice about what he and many thought was surely the Lord's immanent return. He is suggesting that one should stay as they are if single stay single, if married stay married. He does say though that if the desire to marry one you love is so strong than it is not a sin to marry them. He is not saying it is objectively better to be single, unless maybe if you are a missionary spreading the Word of God all around the known world like Paul was doing. I have no idea where you are getting this craziness about raping people?

Quote: FrGamble

It's not me nor the Bible imposing anything, only reason and Mother Nature. We have developed and this development makes it clear how we should use our bodies, how they were meant to fit together, and how to take care of them.

You know, humans never developed clear pheromones or mating seasons, unlike most other animals. We don't know when we're fertile. For us sex for reproduction is hit and miss. Consequently human sex developed as a means of pair-bonding.

That's the nature of human sexuality. And that's why all your "sex as reproduction only" arguments are wrong.

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I think your perception is a combination of Christians exaggerating

Then perhaps you ought to stop exaggerating. I suggest you get down on your knees, too, and beg your imaginary friends to forgive you for causing same sex couples so much pain and anguish.

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While you will not seeing wailing at what the civil world may think about marriage I do often wonder how so many of our protestant brothers and sisters seem to have no problem with divorce when Jesus could not have been clearer.

You seem to have no problem with divorce, either. While you're still railing against a clear legal opening of the benefits of civil marriage to all couples, you've said not one word about divorce.

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Again it is almost as if you have a pathological desire to hate the Church and me. This is NOT at all what I was doing in that quote. I was only justifying why I think Jesus would not condemn anyone for homosexual activity.

Oh, I don't hate you. I'm tolerant of much, no matter how disgusting and hateful it is (I'm not calling you disgusting and hateful of course, though it's so ill-considered to use that as an example, isn't it?)

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why do you keep coming after me?!?!

Because you're out to hurt, damage and otherwise bring misery to large numbers of people.

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The same-sex attraction is natural, I believe it is not something that is chosen freely. However, it does not follow that sexual actions between two men or two women are natural.

Just like the desire to fly might be natural, but building planes and actually flying it is not?

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Surely, your vision of love is not exclusively tied up with the use of our genitals?

Yours is, isn't it? I've never told one person, nor would I ever think to, how to use or not use their genitals. You do little else.

Quote: 1 Corinthians 7:36

If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married.

That is one particular translation. Another one I saw is a bit more explicit about what "not acting honorably" means. I'll try to find that translation when I'm on my other computer and can dig through my browser history.

It may have been in a different chapter, because I remember something about the girl's father. The long and short of it was that once a man has had his way with a woman he should marry her and her father shouldn't punish him.

Quote: FrGamble

The main point of Chapter 7 is Paul giving his advice about what he and many thought was surely the Lord's immanent return. He is suggesting that one should stay as they are if single stay single, if married stay married. He does say though that if the desire to marry one you love is so strong than it is not a sin to marry them. He is not saying it is objectively better to be single, unless maybe if you are a missionary spreading the Word of God all around the known world like Paul was doing. I have no idea where you are getting this craziness about raping people?

Where is the part where it is established that this advice was contingent on the lord's imminent return? I have read the entire book of 1 Corinthians and didn't see anything to establish that context.

It seems like as normal the church is assigning context to the text as it sees fit in a way to attempt to maintain some semblance of consistency.

Paul was planning a trip, he sent these letters on ahead, he told people to stay unmarried, and did not once imply that they should prepare themselves for the return of the lord.

That brings us to the point that we mentioned in another thread - how could the disciples of Jesus, the people who actually walked the earth with him, have been so wrong about the timing of his return?

Here is another translation which paints a slightly different picture: "but if any man think that he seemeth dishonoured, with regard to his virgin, for that she is above the age, and it must so be: let him do what he will; he sinneth not, if she marry."

I still haven't found any evidence that makes the advice of these letters conditional on the imminent return of the lord. Many other websites have notes and explanations of certain words and phrases, and descriptions of the reasons the letters were written, from where and when, all fail to mention that.

A sample notation: "Let him do what he will. He sinneth not: The meaning is not, as libertines would have it, that persons may do what they will and not sin, provided they afterwards marry; but that the father, with regard to the giving his virgin in marriage, may do as he pleaseth; and that it will be no sin to him if she marry."

Well at least she is able to decide for herself. Or maybe not.


A typical webpage establishing the context of the letters: http://biblescripture.net/1Corinthians.html

Did you just make that stuff up about the imminent return of the lord?

Quote: Nareed

You know, humans never developed clear pheromones or mating seasons, unlike most other animals. We don't know when we're fertile. For us sex for reproduction is hit and miss. Consequently human sex developed as a means of pair-bonding.

That's the nature of human sexuality. And that's why all your "sex as reproduction only" arguments are wrong.

Actually, when a woman in her cycle is ready to conceive there are human pheromones that are released. She is more interested in sex at that time and studies have shown that men can tell. It might not be as clear as we see in most animals but it is present. Human sex is for pair-bonding but it is also very obviously for reproduction as well.

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Then perhaps you ought to stop exaggerating. I suggest you get down on your knees, too, and beg your imaginary friends to forgive you for causing same sex couples so much pain and anguish.

I do beg the real and living God for anytime I would cause anyone pain and anguish. I especially ask for forgiveness for times that I have been either two scared or weak to profess the truth in charity. Sometimes I speak the truth without charity, that is just mean. More often I speak in charity but do not speak the truth, that is just weakness and not true love.

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You seem to have no problem with divorce, either. While you're still railing against a clear legal opening of the benefits of civil marriage to all couples, you've said not one word about divorce.

I have said many times that civil rights that married couples receive can be extended to homosexual unions. What the state does in regards to divorce is also its own prerogative. The Church really doesn't have the word divorce in its vocabulary because Jesus clearly forbids it.

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Because you're out to hurt, damage and otherwise bring misery to large numbers of people.

Again you are just projecting on me a false and crazy idea.

Quote: FrGamble

More often I speak in charity but do not speak the truth, that is just weakness and not true love.

Yeah, you know very well Ghandi should be in Hell with Saddam Hussein. A lot of people are going there. That's what you should preach as that is what is made clear by the following.

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Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Isn't it a sin to deceive when you know better?

Quote: FrGamble

The Church really doesn't have the word divorce in its vocabulary because Jesus clearly forbids it.
.

Unless you spouse is cheating on you, of course.

"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality (marital unfaithfulness)"

Which is the reason most people
get divorced.