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Did you ever notice?
| November 19th, 2015 at 8:41:58 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Good post and I agree that the protestant reformation came about because of the corruption of the Church leadership, pride, and evil practices such as the selling of indulgences. So what happens when the Popes are not contrary witnesses to the Gospel and the evil practices of those days have been driven away from the Church? What remains to separate us is the Eucharist, Purgatory, confession, and the role of Mary. I think if you look at these things you will find that not only are they Biblical, but they were consistently believed and practiced in Christianity from the beginning. I know we don't want to say that the early disciples of Jesus got it wrong from the beginning and it took Martin Luther, who did not want to start his own Church, to get us back to what Jesus always wanted us to believe but those closest to Him got it wrong as soon as He ascended to the Father. I don't think we want to say Catholicism is wrong because of the mistakes of many of its members at a time of great corruption all over Europe. After all these are human beings, who were great sinners. It seems to me that for Protestantism to make sense it must rather address why and how the great Church fathers, the early disciples of Jesus, and some of the greatest saints in our shared history got it so wrong for 1500 years. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| November 19th, 2015 at 8:53:47 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18776 | delete You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| November 19th, 2015 at 9:27:06 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
Better to ask, what did they get right. So a bunch of superstitious nonsense made it 1500 years, you act like that's an accomplishment. It's never occurs to you that it's all just a lot of urban legends, that's why there are so many interpretations of it. It only lasted 1500 years intact because the Church made the punishment so harsh for heretics that nobody dared question anything. Ah, you sigh, the good old days. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| November 20th, 2015 at 5:01:39 AM permalink | |
| boymimbo Member since: Mar 25, 2013 Threads: 5 Posts: 732 |
I think you answered your own question, padre. The approach of having that absolute power (before the printing press) had the gradual effect of corrupting the church as generation after generation passed and the men in power turned some passages of the bible into their own personal gain. The ability to have access to Heaven via God's grace alone allowed people to have a personal relationship to God without the reliance on the Catholic hierarchy having to be layered in to that access. Now you may say to yourself, "a relationship to God shouldn't be easy", but the problem with relying on a Catholic hierarchy and its belief is that they rely on a leadership that history shows to be not infallible. I think you see alot of people turning back to the Catholic church because of Francis' liberalish ways. My relationship to God isn't perfect either, but it's personal and between me and Him, and for a true Christian of any faith, being a Christian is never easy. |
| November 20th, 2015 at 5:02:12 AM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
When "have faith" is given as the answer to a question about how or why something happens, it means "stop asking questions" You aren't allowed to question that Jesus was the son of god, that your god created the universe, that the catholic version of religion is the true one and all others are shadows or from the unrevealed times. There are many things like this that the church does not want questioned, because they believe they are right, and don't want that to change. They don't want the next big religion to say that catholocism just didn't have all of the truth revealed to them yet. They are convinced that they have the final version of the truth. Something you said recently hit me as a "stop asking questions" sort of answer, but I couldn't find it. There are many things that the church doesn't want you to question. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| November 20th, 2015 at 8:29:57 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Those who questioned or, worse, believed Jesus to be human, or Jesus to be god, but not both, were not treated by the early church in a way we'd considered civilized. They found relief from prosecution only when Muslims conquered Egypt, Persia and Mesopotamia. In effect, Christianity enjoyed a greater measure of religious freedom under Muslim rule rather than under Christian rule. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| November 20th, 2015 at 10:22:42 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
It should always be as you say and it is today. The Catholic Church was established by Jesus Himself to be a help not a hindrance to our personal relationship with Jesus Christ. The fact that sinful men thwarted its divine purpose at times does not mean that it is untrue or not universally for all. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| November 20th, 2015 at 10:28:42 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
You are totally underestimating my passion and desire for truth and to follow it wherever it leads. It was asking serious questions about all the things you mentioned that led me to the Catholic Church. If you check out the video I posted earlier about an atheist who became a Christian it talks about how when she began to truly ask questions she was led to God. When you are willing to ask the hard questions with a truly open mind and allow truth to speak it will inevitable led one to God, Christ, and the Church He established. The Church therefore encourages questions. One of, if not our greatest theologian, St. Thomas Aquinas took asking hard questions as the basis for his Summa Theologica. I greatly encourage you to read a little bit of it and see his method, it is all about asking if Jesus was the Son of God, If God created the universe, is the Catholic religion the one true Church. He goes so far as to not only ask the questions but even present the best arguments he can find against his position and then answer them. You will NEVER find me saying, "stop asking questions" and there is no question the Church does not want us to ask. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| November 20th, 2015 at 10:36:18 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 | Let me open by saying I've formally declared war on the Catholic church. This isn't personal.
Why has the church covered up child abuse committed by priests? What do you think Jesus would think about it if he were still alive? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| November 20th, 2015 at 11:33:47 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
Wrong again. You don't ask the hard questions, you have to ask the right questions. Is there evidence of gods existence. Is sin real. Those are the only two questions you need. If you think you see evidence for a god, and then for sin, the rest is easy. If not, you need look no further, move on to something else. There are no hard questions, just logical ones. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |